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Talos: 90% webs at every gate?
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Songbird
#21 - 2011-10-29 12:03:50 UTC
from the data mine I see 2272 base armor hp + 5 low slots(4md, 8 high). Remember - the name BC refers to 2 types of cruisers - cruisers with armor of BS OR cruisers with guns of BS.

2272 base armor is a tiny bit less than that of the navy vexor and 1 slot less. So go forth my children and fit a navy vexor with 5 low slots only and thou shalt have the possible talos armor .
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#22 - 2011-10-29 12:06:23 UTC
Songbird wrote:
from the data mine I see 2272 base armor hp + 5 low slots(4md, 8 high). Remember - the name BC refers to 2 types of cruisers - cruisers with armor of BS OR cruisers with guns of BS.

2272 base armor is a tiny bit less than that of the navy vexor and 1 slot less. So go forth my children and fit a navy vexor with 5 low slots only and thou shalt have the possible talos armor .


It's a gank ship, you want to boost it's dps not his tank so if it gets 30K ehp is fine
Songbird
#23 - 2011-10-29 12:48:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Songbird
thought the previous posts said it was a tackling ship due to it's web bonus :).

If you ask me I'll do high speed shield fits and lows filled with 3 or 4 damage mods but I am just a speed freak, plus fleets I run with usually has scimitars as logis, so I tend to mold everything into that shape.
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#24 - 2011-10-29 12:55:37 UTC
Songbird wrote:
thought the previous posts said it was a tackling ship due to it's web bonus :).

If you ask me I'll do high speed shield fits and lows filled with 3 or 4 damage mods but I am just a speed freak, plus fleets I run with usually has scimitars as logis, so I tend to mold everything into that shape.


Yes I understand what you mean, I just figured once I've shield fitted my lachesis to over 50K ehp with no fleet or whatever bonus while with armor was just a paper thin brick, also with many other armor ships it's same fight (hi mega/domi/hype shield)

Also: shield logistics are way too good
Calapine
Xeno Tech Corp
#25 - 2011-10-29 13:15:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Calapine
Tanya Powers wrote:
[quote=Songbird]thought the previous posts said it was a tackling ship due to it's web bonus :).


Ohh...Talos the Tackle-BC with lows full of nanos and an over-sized 100mn MWD! I am loving it! P

[serious post starts here]

To the OP: It's not like we don't already have (remote) sensor boosted Rapiers/Huginns with 52km overheated dual-webs in game. If someone is really determined to shut down a gate and willing to put the resources into it they will succeed, with or without Talos.

Cala

Pain is short, and joy is eternal.
Cunane Jeran
#26 - 2011-10-29 13:35:46 UTC
Songbird wrote:
thought the previous posts said it was a tackling ship due to it's web bonus :).

If you ask me I'll do high speed shield fits and lows filled with 3 or 4 damage mods but I am just a speed freak, plus fleets I run with usually has scimitars as logis, so I tend to mold everything into that shape.


4 mid slots though, after prop, web and scam, I'd be tempted to stick a cap injector on it and say feck it to the tank.
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
#27 - 2011-10-29 14:24:41 UTC
CCP is just clueless at what they are doing. It was clearly not enough to see all those drakes and canes around, now we're getting a new breed of the same OP dirt-cheap crap everyone will jump onto.

Yeah, let's remove even those remains of diversity we still have. Let it be BC Online.

"Being supporters of free speech and free and open [CSM] elections... we removed Fon Revedhort from eligibility". CCP, April 2013.
Gazmin VanBurin
Boma Bull Corp
#28 - 2011-10-29 15:26:16 UTC
I guess you guys never ran into a 2-3 webbing raiper before. The web bomus isent that game breaking, sure you can camp with less people now, but wow smaller fleet warfair wouldn't be a good thing would it? [sarcasim]
Aralieus
Shadowbane Syndicate
#29 - 2011-10-29 15:41:48 UTC
If I was a Talos pilot sitting on a gate be sure I would have 2 webs fitted, jus sayin

Oderint Dum Metuant
TrollFace TrololMcFluf
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2011-10-29 15:42:31 UTC
Oh god yet more ******* tears for something that isnt even out yet

Thanks to your tears all of these new bcs will be nerfed to worthlessness before they even hit tranq

You tearbabys are everything that is wrong with eve these days

Your inability to adapt or die is pathetic
m0cking bird
Doomheim
#31 - 2011-10-29 16:17:34 UTC
A mobile nerf sounds good to me. T3's and most ships will get stepped on I suppose. However, I think this is being over blown.
Jacob Stov
#32 - 2011-10-29 16:41:18 UTC
There was a reason to reduce web strength to 75%. Introducing 90% webs on the most popular combat ship class looks like backpaddeling.
Well, lets see how it performs on SiSi.
1-Up Mushroom
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#33 - 2011-10-29 16:50:46 UTC
Tanya Powers wrote:
Aamrr wrote:
Much has been made about the Tornado and its potential for suicide ganking, but I think the forums have so far missed a bigger issue in the tier-3 battlecruiser designs.

The Talos offers a 90% web on a dirt cheap hull. Every gate camp will now have one.

One of the common strategies for a gatecamp is burning back to gate and going back the way you came. With an overheated MWD and a bit of momentum, you can often manage to make it back in a decently agile hull. With 90% webs on the field, this changes.

Previously, 90% webs were reserved for nine ships. All of them cost at least 100 million isk and none were insurable in the slightest. The cheapest two were frigates, and therefore difficult to keep alive under lowsec sentry fire. A well-equipped gatecamp might well be expected to have one, but they were the exception rather than the rule.

Is this a good change for the gatecamping ecosystem? I don't know. But it's certainly a significant change from a universe where 90% webs were the exclusive purview of T2 and faction hulls.



I don't see you whiners about the Talos come up and say it's silly the shortest range weapons system is screwed with overpowered scorch pulses shooting nuclear dmg at 65km +

I don't see you whiners bothered because you have overall the best line up ships in eve

I don't see you whiners, at least once, admit gallente ships/guns are completely screwed

Now the Talos, if, he gets some web bonus are making you whine because you have to use tactics and brains.

Wow, isn't this cute...

Now let me get this straight: I for once will maybe start flying Gallente since I'm flying now Minmatar because I don't have the choice if I want to fleet up.

Alpha? -Amarr Minmatar
Skirmish? -Amarr Minmatar
Med engagements? : Minmatar Amarr Drakes
Undock games? -wtfpown pilgrims curses rapiers munnins zealots vagas cynabals dramiels DD's and I'll stop here
Logistics? - Scimitars Guardians, sometimes (really rare) Basilisk

So gallente gets one ship, with one bonus needed if you don't want blasters to get your pulse optimal and autos tracking, and you find ways to whine...


lolwut, I read that entire thing twice and still couldn't figure out what he was saying
5 Senses In A Person... 4 Seasons In A Year... 3 Colors In A Stoplight... 2 Poles On The Earth... ONLY 1-UP MUSHROOM!!!  If You Like My Sig, Like Me!   Remember EVE is EVErything!
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#34 - 2011-10-29 17:12:57 UTC
Jacob Stov wrote:
There was a reason to reduce web strength to 75%. Introducing 90% webs on the most popular combat ship class looks like backpaddeling.
Well, lets see how it performs on SiSi.


Hell I tossed my cofee by my nose when I just read this stuff Lol

"there was a reason to reduce strength to 75%" Shocked

"introducing 90% webs on the most popular combat ship" Shocked

How's that??

Canes and Drakes are getting 75% webs?

How powerful Rapiers will be with 75% strength webs?

How about stop smoking your funny stuff? Lol
Aamrr
#35 - 2011-10-29 17:30:55 UTC
Whoa! I walk away from my thread for 2 hours everyone's accusing me of whining. That wasn't my intent at all.

I don't necessarily have a problem with the Talos's ewar bonus. It's an interesting decision, and I honestly think that the ship class is going to be successful, they either have to have a tracking bonus, a range (optimal/falloff) bonus, or an ewar bonus -- large turrets simply aren't going to track the targets these will hunt without them. If the Talos is going to be a blaster platform, a web bonus is only sensible.

I just wanted to take a look at the ramifications of theTalos as a heavy-tackle platform in one of the more common Eve PvP environments. This is why I said I didn't know if it would be a good or bad change.

I'm looking forward to seeing these ships hit Tranquility. I wanted a chance to discuss the effect of their ewar bonus. Please don't accuse me of whining prematurely? Sad
Cillet Baang Scott
Allowance Pester Dread
#36 - 2011-10-29 17:55:09 UTC
Aamrr wrote:
Whoa! I walk away from my thread for 2 hours everyone's accusing me of whining. That wasn't my intent at all.

I don't necessarily have a problem with the Talos's ewar bonus. It's an interesting decision, and I honestly think that the ship class is going to be successful, they either have to have a tracking bonus, a range (optimal/falloff) bonus, or an ewar bonus -- large turrets simply aren't going to track the targets these will hunt without them. If the Talos is going to be a blaster platform, a web bonus is only sensible.

I just wanted to take a look at the ramifications of theTalos as a heavy-tackle platform in one of the more common Eve PvP environments. This is why I said I didn't know if it would be a good or bad change.

I'm looking forward to seeing these ships hit Tranquility. I wanted a chance to discuss the effect of their ewar bonus. Please don't accuse me of whining prematurely? Sad


Forum posting is always whining.
Aamrr
#37 - 2011-10-29 18:14:35 UTC
But I'm too young to be a bitter vet! *whine*
dream3874
Tears of Redemption
#38 - 2011-10-29 18:41:58 UTC
Yes and this is a problem why? Big smile
Veronica Kerrigan
Surgically Constructed L Feminist
#39 - 2011-10-29 18:49:26 UTC
how is this any different from sitting a dual web rapier on a gate? Same web strength, but with more than twice as much range. As far as I know, those are not game breaking, so how is this again?
Aamrr
#40 - 2011-10-29 19:01:13 UTC
Dual webs are about an 81% speed reduction. That's a far shot from 90, and there's nothing preventing a Talos from fitting dual webs, either -- which correspond to a 97.8% web. To give you an idea, the victim of your poor rapier would be going almost 9x faster.