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And you thought HI was too safe???? Welcome to Thunderdome™

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DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#141 - 2013-03-17 18:38:54 UTC
Welcome to Thunderdome™ Two neck beards enter, no dignity leaves
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#142 - 2013-03-17 19:18:53 UTC
Sentamon wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

What has our numbers got to do with the soul crushingly bad time everyone has with grinding down endless structure hitpoints for solid month?


Because when you have all the numbers and your goal is to conquer and divide up the whole universe, all that you get is a soul crushing bad time of shooting structures, and you deserve it. You'd think this is obvious.




So the trillions of hitpoints you have to burn through in a sov war simply go away if we have smaller powerblocks?

You do realise that it will take even longer with smaller fleets right?
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#143 - 2013-03-17 19:30:20 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
Andski wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
While some say the World works in hyprocrisy i still think it fumbles over itself & ends up worse off for it... guess there is only 1 way to learn ( & yet still ignore the lesson )
several smaller alliances occupying some sov space can certainly form a defensive bloc that only sets standings when one of them faces a larger external threat, and such blocs exist of course they'd probably get mopped away by a more organized bloc if it came to that but, again, that's just the law of the jungle



EVEneeds ALOT more ******* jumgles like there where in Viet NAM to make more niches viable then the big boys have right now to trump them


So... places where a small group can only survive against a superpower when propped up by another superpower?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War#People.27s_Republic_of_China


Because that sounds like the current nullsec situation.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#144 - 2013-03-17 19:30:31 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Sentamon wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

What has our numbers got to do with the soul crushingly bad time everyone has with grinding down endless structure hitpoints for solid month?


Because when you have all the numbers and your goal is to conquer and divide up the whole universe, all that you get is a soul crushing bad time of shooting structures, and you deserve it. You'd think this is obvious.




So the trillions of hitpoints you have to burn through in a sov war simply go away if we have smaller powerblocks?

You do realise that it will take even longer with smaller fleets right?


For that, the entire system needs to change but people prefer blaming GOONS for everything. It's much easyer than coming up with a good idea to change SOV warfare.
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#145 - 2013-03-18 00:47:52 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:


EVEneeds ALOT more ******* jumgles like there where in Viet NAM to make more niches viable then the big boys have right now to trump them


So... places where a small group can only survive against a superpower when propped up by another superpower?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War#People.27s_Republic_of_China


Because that sounds like the current nullsec situation.[/quote]

I was thinking more like HI/LO/NULL systems with MAGnitar/Blackhole/etc effects in wormholes that'd be less vanilla & more jungle like TBH
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Tesal
#146 - 2013-03-18 00:56:06 UTC
Lots of "NAP aspirants" in this thread. How amusing.

A simple solution to structure grinding, outsource it to people you sell the space to.
Alara IonStorm
#147 - 2013-03-18 00:59:52 UTC
What is with the Small Force Vietnam comparisons. Didn't they heavily outnumber the Americans and die like 5-1, not really a small Guerrilla Force taking on a Superpower, more like a massive Force using Guerrilla Tactics taking on a smaller technologically advanced army and wearing them down until they left.

I don't see how that equates to taking on a Nullpire with a small force because most of these Guerrilla Tactics costs a lot more lives lost on their side then the entrenched American's.
Hannah Flex
#148 - 2013-03-18 01:01:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Hannah Flex
.
Spurty
#149 - 2013-03-18 02:08:26 UTC
Hannah Flex wrote:
The Blue DonutThunderdome™ is alive and kickin thanks for your concern highsec guys and NPC corp duders Smile


sigh, really ..

85 Ships killed (2.39B ISK)
29 Ships lost (1.12B ISK)

Come back with a battlereport that has a 'T' in the number before the word 'ISK'.

Seen single ship losses that are many times that much in value from people that don't have any renters or tech moons.

You have the ISK, splash it! Destroying probably 'free' ships doesn't make for an interesting landscape.

:)

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP
Trendon Evenstar
Olympus Gods
#150 - 2013-03-18 02:41:55 UTC
Spurty wrote:
Hannah Flex wrote:
The Blue DonutThunderdome™ is alive and kickin thanks for your concern highsec guys and NPC corp duders Smile


sigh, really ..

85 Ships killed (2.39B ISK)
29 Ships lost (1.12B ISK)

Come back with a battlereport that has a 'T' in the number before the word 'ISK'.

Seen single ship losses that are many times that much in value from people that don't have any renters or tech moons.

You have the ISK, splash it! Destroying probably 'free' ships doesn't make for an interesting landscape.

:)


Is this VOLTA volunteering to bring a blinged out T3 fleet to VFK?
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#151 - 2013-03-18 03:17:43 UTC
Hannah Flex wrote:
The Blue DonutThunderdome™ is alive and kickin thanks for your concern highsec guys and NPC corp duders Smile


Kinda wondering why there are some GSF on GSF pod kill now...
No More Heroes
Boomer Humor
Snuffed Out
#152 - 2013-03-18 04:00:05 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Hannah Flex wrote:
The Blue DonutThunderdome™ is alive and kickin thanks for your concern highsec guys and NPC corp duders Smile


Kinda wondering why there are some GSF on GSF pod kill now...


We pod each other in 0.0 as a means of med-cloning around the universe

Shocking isnt it, all that missed sp/hr from no implants Shocked

.
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#153 - 2013-03-18 04:24:04 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
For that, the entire system needs to change but people prefer blaming GOONS for everything.


I don't blame the Goons. I blame their parents.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0
Tesal
#154 - 2013-03-18 05:15:22 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Hannah Flex wrote:
The Blue DonutThunderdome™ is alive and kickin thanks for your concern highsec guys and NPC corp duders Smile


Kinda wondering why there are some GSF on GSF pod kill now...


They are sacrifices to the Great Goon God.
dark heartt
#155 - 2013-03-18 05:43:05 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
this imbalance is making NULL too safe in many's eyes


I read this post, and apart from the format and grammar making me want to poke my eyes out with a Caracal, it makes me laugh. I have no affiliation with any current null sec bloc, alliance or even corp and even I know that to make an area of 0.0 safe the players need to patrol and do something to make sure it's safe. In high sec players think it is safe because of Concord (who are judge, jury and executioner to those who commit crimes, not a prevention of violence so that argument is invalid), but null is so much more safe because players do things.

Intel channels, roaming gangs, keeping an eye on local, structures and basic player awareness all help keep 0.0 safe, not the ISK from tech moons. Sure the tech helps to hold the space in paying for sov bills and structures, but it's not like they can pay to not have an enemy come into the system. Why do people think that a bloc like the CFC having so much more money than anyone else is imbalanced? They worked hard to have the sov to do so.

Just because Shadoo wants to recreate RvB in null (don't deny it, that's what you want), doesn't mean that there is an imbalance of safety. It just means that they want to have good fights without worrying about using the terrible sov system.

/rant.

http://tetrisisunrealistic.blogspot.com.au/
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#156 - 2013-03-18 06:38:56 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
DarthNefarius wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
So... places where a small group can only survive against a superpower when propped up by another superpower?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War#People.27s_Republic_of_China


Because that sounds like the current nullsec situation.


I was thinking more like HI/LO/NULL systems with MAGnitar/Blackhole/etc effects in wormholes that'd be less vanilla & more jungle like TBH


Besides the inability to quote things properly (either do it right or leave it alone, don't try (and fail) to edit your statement to change the meaning of your post), you missed the entire point of the post.

You brought up the Vietnam war as an example of what you want to see (a smaller group facing down a superpower and winning).

I'm just here to point out that that is a hilariously bad interpretation of history and demonstrates a stunning lack of knowledge of world history (which dovetails nicely with your previously and concurrently demonstrated lack of knowledge of the game you play).


How in the world would WH-style effects (which, being trivially discovered, do nothing to help or hinder anyone in a sov fight) in any way get you what you want, which is:
DarthNefarius wrote:
to make more niches viable then the big boys have right now to trump them

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#157 - 2013-03-18 07:10:50 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:


How in the world would WH-style effects (which, being trivially discovered, do nothing to help or hinder anyone in a sov fight) in any way get you what you want, which is:
DarthNefarius wrote:
to make more niches viable then the big boys have right now to trump them


Actually I doubt it'd be much of a hinderance but just more fun & add spice
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#158 - 2013-03-18 07:13:53 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
dark heartt wrote:


Just because Shadoo wants to recreate RvB in null (don't deny it, that's what you want), doesn't mean that there is an imbalance of safety. It just means that they want to have good fights without worrying about using the terrible sov system.

/rant.


Weellll I guess I have no problems with RvB in NULL ( if it gets your rocks off fine ) just it does remind me of the risk aversion being decried about HI being replicated in NULL... just don't blame CCP for your own risk aversion
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Donald MacRury
LankTech
#159 - 2013-03-18 07:21:28 UTC
This is the craziest thing I ever heard. Maybe people should think for a moment that there isn't anything wrong with the system and just what people want to do. Besides structure grinding maybe time consuming and annoying but it exists and its been part of the system for as long as I can remember. It shouldn't even matter.

If two groups in null decide to fighter each other whats stopping them from just bashing their fleets together and getting kills. Or if one alliance wants to take the space of another, well then they will have to deal with grinding up their sov in order to take it.

So if people have a problem with this then maybe they should spend more time of coming up with creative ways of dealing with it rather than spending time complaining that eve should be changed. Every problem has a solution and it doesn't have to involve the mechanics of the system to be changed for it.

Don't like the lack of fighting between the large groups in null then join a group that does fight them. Don't like all the profits that are being made from moon goo then stop buying tech 2.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#160 - 2013-03-18 07:28:00 UTC
Donald MacRury wrote:
So if people have a problem with this then maybe they should spend more time of coming up with creative ways of dealing with it rather than spending time complaining that eve should be changed. Every problem has a solution and it doesn't have to involve the mechanics of the system to be changed for it.


The two fundamental problems with Null are:
1. There is relatively little incentive to take space.
2. There are literally Billions of EHP to grind through once you break the enemy and they leave. (Ignoring resists, it would take a 250 man fleet of Hellcats working 8 hours a day several months to take CFC or HBC space. With resists, longer, ofc).

Both of those are problems with the game mechanics. What's your magical non-game-mechanic-changing solution to these problems?

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon