These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

STEALTH CHANGE to Buddy Program T&C's? CCP RESPONSE NEEDED

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Oraac Ensor
#41 - 2013-03-17 14:29:33 UTC
Lashenadeeka wrote:
I think your interpretation is wrong, but mine could of course also be wrong. Only CCP can tell us, so let's sit tight and see what they have to say. They can't really ignore this.

If your interpretation is correct, this:
Quote:
Abusing the Buddy System is considered an exploit and will not be tolerated. Incidents will be handled on a case by case basis and action taken may include bans for all accounts involved and/or confiscation of ISK and items. Abuse includes, but is not limited to, farming gifts and making throw-away alts for grief-play purposes.

would be worded like this:
Quote:
Abusing the Buddy System is considered an exploit and will not be tolerated. Incidents will be handled on a case by case basis and action taken may include bans for all accounts involved and/or confiscation of ISK and items. Abuse includes, but is not limited to, farming gifts and making alts.

The fact that a particular instance of alt creation has been cited tells us all we need to know.
Rakshasa Taisab
Sane Industries Inc.
#42 - 2013-03-17 15:11:41 UTC
You guys are going full re...

They won't be banning you for making alts that's just stupid, they'll be banning you if you abuse the buddy system in any way.

Like, when the goons used the buddy program to create free alts capable of voting in the CSM election, or for suicide ganking, etc.

Nyan
Tarpedo
Incursionista
#43 - 2013-03-17 15:25:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Tarpedo
TL;DR buddy program is evil and lead you to troubles with account. Not worth it.
Lashenadeeka
Qinglong Fleet
Jade Kirin Alliance
#44 - 2013-03-17 15:42:41 UTC
Why is everyone assuming bullet point 9 overrules bullet point 8? Bullet point 9 read the way it does now before bullet point 8 was introduced. I'd suggest that the point about throw-away alts has been superceded.

For example, if I say
Terms and conditions:
1. You can't do "X"
2. You can't do "X" if you intend to do "Y"

It does NOT mean that you can do "X" as long as you don't do "Y". They are seperate articles and must be read as such.

ONCE AGAIN:
A new alt account is not a new player, is therefore violating the purpose of the buddy program, and under bullet point 8 the offending alt will be banned.
Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#45 - 2013-03-17 15:50:50 UTC
This change is completely unrelated to the upcoming CSM elections.

.
Oraac Ensor
#46 - 2013-03-17 15:52:22 UTC
Lashenadeeka wrote:
Why is everyone assuming bullet point 9 overrules bullet point 8? Bullet point 9 read the way it does now before bullet point 8 was introduced. I'd suggest that the point about throw-away alts has been superceded.

For example, if I say
Terms and conditions:
1. You can't do "X"
2. You can't do "X" if you intend to do "Y"

It does NOT mean that you can do "X" as long as you don't do "Y". They are seperate articles and must be read as such.

ONCE AGAIN:
A new alt account is not a new player, is therefore violating the purpose of the buddy program, and under bullet point 8 the offending alt will be banned.


Bullet point eight says that the buddy program is intended to encourage new players.

True - but where does it state that to be its sole intention?
Lord Battlestar
CALIMA COLLABORATIVE
Atrox Urbanis Respublique Abundatia
#47 - 2013-03-17 15:52:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Lord Battlestar
I am pretty sure that is only to nail people who just create endless characters and put a single month on them to get months and months of free game time, with the explicit purpose of getting free game time. If you create like one character every now and a great while and actually keep both characters activated and paying accounts I hardly doubt CCP would complain.

I personally agree with that condition, it only makes sense from a business standpoint.

I once podded myself by blowing a huge fart.
Lashenadeeka
Qinglong Fleet
Jade Kirin Alliance
#48 - 2013-03-17 15:55:00 UTC
Oraac Ensor wrote:
Lashenadeeka wrote:
Why is everyone assuming bullet point 9 overrules bullet point 8? Bullet point 9 read the way it does now before bullet point 8 was introduced. I'd suggest that the point about throw-away alts has been superceded.

For example, if I say
Terms and conditions:
1. You can't do "X"
2. You can't do "X" if you intend to do "Y"

It does NOT mean that you can do "X" as long as you don't do "Y". They are seperate articles and must be read as such.

ONCE AGAIN:
A new alt account is not a new player, is therefore violating the purpose of the buddy program, and under bullet point 8 the offending alt will be banned.


Bullet point eight says that the buddy program is intended to encourage new players.

True - but where does it state that to be its sole intention?


So you're suggesting that it's intention is for ALL account creation barring accounts that are created for grief play purposes or to farm gifts, yeah?

Again, we need clarification, this argument just keeps the thread bumped until CCP responds.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#49 - 2013-03-17 16:02:16 UTC
Lashenadeeka wrote:
So you're suggesting that it's intention is for ALL account creation barring accounts that are created for grief play purposes or to farm gifts, yeah?

Again, we need clarification, this argument just keeps the thread bumped until CCP responds.


No, he's saying that creating an alt account is not an abuse of the buddy invite system on it's own, as confirmed by a GM. Is that so hard to understand?

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#50 - 2013-03-17 16:05:07 UTC
Lashenadeeka wrote:
ONCE AGAIN:
A new alt account is not a new player, is therefore violating the purpose of the buddy program


It only violates the purpose of the buddy program if created for exploitive purposes. Creating an alt account for legitimate purposes is not a violation of the buddy program.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Lashenadeeka
Qinglong Fleet
Jade Kirin Alliance
#51 - 2013-03-17 16:08:03 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
t is not an abuse of the buddy invite system on it's own, as confirmed by a GM. Is that so hard to understand?


As confirmed by a GM BEFORE the T&C's were changed - is that so hard to understand?
Oraac Ensor
#52 - 2013-03-17 16:15:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Oraac Ensor
Lashenadeeka wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
t is not an abuse of the buddy invite system on it's own, as confirmed by a GM. Is that so hard to understand?


As confirmed by a GM BEFORE the T&C's were changed - is that so hard to understand?

Still having reading comprehension problems?
Lashenadeeka wrote:
He made that alt 17 days ago. The new bullet point didn't exist back then.
Grimbriar Blitz wrote:
Yes it did, otherwise I wouldn't have petitioned. It wasn't that hard, was it?
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#53 - 2013-03-17 16:15:43 UTC
Lashenadeeka wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
t is not an abuse of the buddy invite system on it's own, as confirmed by a GM. Is that so hard to understand?


As confirmed by a GM BEFORE the T&C's were changed - is that so hard to understand?


Confirmed by a GM 17 days ago. The Terms & Conditions were last revised on the 2nd of November, 2012 by GM Thunder.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Lashenadeeka
Qinglong Fleet
Jade Kirin Alliance
#54 - 2013-03-17 16:18:29 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Lashenadeeka wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
t is not an abuse of the buddy invite system on it's own, as confirmed by a GM. Is that so hard to understand?


As confirmed by a GM BEFORE the T&C's were changed - is that so hard to understand?


Confirmed by a GM 17 days ago. The Terms & Conditions were last revised on the 2nd of November, 2012 by GM Thunder.


Where does it say that?
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#55 - 2013-03-17 16:20:03 UTC
Lashenadeeka wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Lashenadeeka wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
t is not an abuse of the buddy invite system on it's own, as confirmed by a GM. Is that so hard to understand?


As confirmed by a GM BEFORE the T&C's were changed - is that so hard to understand?


Confirmed by a GM 17 days ago. The Terms & Conditions were last revised on the 2nd of November, 2012 by GM Thunder.


Where does it say that?


Here. The place where you can find everything you wanted to know about the rules of this game, which are updated across the board as soon as a change occurs.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Lashenadeeka
Qinglong Fleet
Jade Kirin Alliance
#56 - 2013-03-17 16:23:19 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:

Here. The place where you can find everything you wanted to know about the rules of this game, which are updated across the board as soon as a change occurs.


That page doesn't include the latest revision, here are the rules stated on the page:

Quote:
Each paying account (trial accounts do not qualify for this promotion) can send Buddy Program invites.
Only accounts created through this emailed invite are valid for this offer. Be sure your friends use the invite to create their account in order for you to earn your game time when they subscribe to EVE Online
Eligible subscription activations can be funded by Credit/Debit cards, PayPal, WebMoney Transfer, paysafecard, ETC, PLEX, Nexon, Ukash and iDeal.
Payments not eligible for this offer: Direct Debit, CD Keys, including CD Keys purchased or received from non-CCP sources and online stores such as, but not limited to: Steam Store, Direct2Drive, Gamers Gate, and Impulse Driven.
You will need to have a paying account once your friend purchases an EVE Online subscription to receive your reward of a PLEX or 30 days.
Some promotional offers are excluded as a form of activation for the Buddy Program; you will need to refer to each promotional offer’s Terms and Conditions.
Please note that once your Buddy purchases an EVE Online subscription, your reward may take up to 24hours to be applied.
CCP reserves the right to restrict eligibility for some rewards according to certain criteria, including but not limited to minimum account age or minimum client log-in time of the inviter.
Scamming in any way or form through buddy invites is prohibited and violations of this rule will be handled accordingly by EVE Online Customer Support. Action will be taken against players who violate this rule and sanctions may include warnings or bans of the offending accounts.
Abusing the Buddy System is considered an exploit and will not be tolerated. Incidents will be handled on a case by case basis and action taken may include bans for all accounts involved and/or confiscation of ISK and items. Abuse includes, but is not limited to; farming gifts, making throw-away alts for grief-play purposes.


And here are the rules stated in the terms and conditions on the "Buddy Program" page in account management

Terms and Conditions

Quote:
Any paying EVE Online account may send Buddy Program invitations (trial accounts do not qualify for this promotion).
Buddy accounts must be created using the links provided in the Buddy Program invitation email. Be sure your friends use a Buddy Program invitation to create their account in order for you to earn your game time when they subscribe to EVE Online.
To be eligible for rewards, the new Buddy account needs to be activated and the subscription fee paid by using Credit/Debit cards, PayPal, WebMoney Transfer, paysafecard, ETC, PLEX, Nexon, Ukash, iDeal, Yandex, Amazon Game Connect and any additional payment methods accepted by CCP from time to time.
To be eligible for the rewards, the Buddy account subscription fee may not be paid using any of the following methods: Direct Debit or CD Keys, including CD Keys purchased or received from non-CCP sources and online stores such as, but not limited to: Amazon starter pack, Steam Store, Direct2Drive, Gamers Gate, Impulse Driven.
To receive your reward of an additional 30 days’ game time, you will need to have an active, paying EVE Online account after your friend purchases the EVE Online Buddy subscription. CCP may offer the reward to you in the form of 30 days’ additional game time, delivery of one PLEX to your account (which may be redeemed for 30 days’ game time), or any similar method.
Please note that once your Buddy purchases an EVE Online subscription, your reward may take up to 24 hours to be applied.
CCP reserves the right to restrict eligibility for some rewards according to certain criteria, including but not limited to minimum account age or minimum client log-in time of the inviter. In addition, CCP reserves the right not to reward you with PLEX (such as when a new Buddy account is upgraded using PLEX).
The Buddy Program is intended for you to encourage new players to join EVE Online. Violating the purpose of the Buddy Program in any way or form is prohibited. Violations of this rule will be handled by EVE Online Customer Support, and action will be taken against players who violate this rule (including, but not limited to, warnings or bans of the offending accounts).
Abusing the Buddy System is considered an exploit and will not be tolerated. Incidents will be handled on a case by case basis and action taken may include bans for all accounts involved and/or confiscation of ISK and items. Abuse includes, but is not limited to, farming gifts and making throw-away alts for grief-play purposes.


I have highlighted the new addition.
Orlacc
#57 - 2013-03-17 16:57:30 UTC
You can still use it for alts. Are you really that gullible?

"Measure Twice, Cut Once."
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
#58 - 2013-03-17 17:13:01 UTC
Lashenadeeka wrote:
Eighth bullet point in the buddy program list.

Quote:
The Buddy Program is intended for you to encourage new players to join EVE Online. Violating the purpose of the Buddy Program in any way or form is prohibited. Violations of this rule will be handled by EVE Online Customer Support, and action will be taken against players who violate this rule (including, but not limited to, warnings or bans of the offending accounts).


I DO NOT remember this being there the last time I looked.
Because inviting yourself is not encouraging new PLAYERS to join, it is violating the purpose of the Buddy Program and thusly bannable. So according to this new rule, we can no longer create alts whatsoever with the Buddy Program.

CCP must clarify this issue and post an announcement regarding their stance or many players who are unaware of this change could potentially risk being banned.



They clarified a rule, it was clear to anyone with a brain that the buddy program was not meant to be used that way....Roll

Signature removed - CCP Eterne
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#59 - 2013-03-17 18:12:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
Beekeeper Bob wrote:
Lashenadeeka wrote:
Eighth bullet point in the buddy program list.

Quote:
The Buddy Program is intended for you to encourage new players to join EVE Online. Violating the purpose of the Buddy Program in any way or form is prohibited. Violations of this rule will be handled by EVE Online Customer Support, and action will be taken against players who violate this rule (including, but not limited to, warnings or bans of the offending accounts).


I DO NOT remember this being there the last time I looked.
Because inviting yourself is not encouraging new PLAYERS to join, it is violating the purpose of the Buddy Program and thusly bannable. So according to this new rule, we can no longer create alts whatsoever with the Buddy Program.

CCP must clarify this issue and post an announcement regarding their stance or many players who are unaware of this change could potentially risk being banned.



They clarified a rule, it was clear to anyone with a brain that the buddy program was not meant to be used that way....Roll



Thats the thing, its not very clear it seems to say that using the program for anything other than inviting 100% new players isn't allowed but it doesn't clearly state that its prohibited to use it to create an alt - however in the past its been ok'd by CCP to use it for creating alts (regardless of what the T&Cs may or may not say in that specific regard) - I've checked the same thing before. So IMO it definitely needs some clarification.
Dimitryy
Silent Knights.
LinkNet
#60 - 2013-03-17 18:54:20 UTC
Lashenadeeka wrote:
Policy used to be that making alts using the buddy program was allowed. It's not clear at all because they haven't posted an announcement stating the change - it's basically entrapment if there has been an unannounced policy change.


Entrapment? I lol'd.