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STEALTH CHANGE to Buddy Program T&C's? CCP RESPONSE NEEDED

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Oraac Ensor
#21 - 2013-03-17 12:43:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Oraac Ensor
iskflakes wrote:
I would love to see a CCP response to the question below: "Is it a bannable offence to create an alt using the buddy programme?"

I strongly hope CCP's new bullet point is only to stop people creating suicide gank alts on 54 day trials. Let's wait and see if there's any clarification.

So you didn't read the ninth bullet point?
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2013-03-17 12:52:32 UTC
iskflakes wrote:
Mr Kidd wrote:
Nothing stealth about publishing and clearly defining the intent of the buddy system.


There is something stealth about inserting a new bullet point in the middle of a list people don't read anyway, and then not telling anybody about it.



CCP published the new rules, bullet pointed it but, it's stealth because you couldn't be arsed to read it. Not like they buried it through 5 different web links on a page that intermittently works. That would have been stealth. Putting right there in front of you and you not reading it only means one thing!

[*] You're lazy

Don't ban me, bro!
Rengerel en Distel
#23 - 2013-03-17 13:03:22 UTC
I wonder what other thing that requires you to have an active, subscribed account they wouldn't want you abusing with buddy accounts? If I was them, I wouldn't want 5000 accounts opened just to cast a vote, then sit there unused forever either.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
Frying Doom
#24 - 2013-03-17 13:15:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Frying Doom
Rengerel en Distel wrote:
I wonder what other thing that requires you to have an active, subscribed account they wouldn't want you abusing with buddy accounts? If I was them, I wouldn't want 5000 accounts opened just to cast a vote, then sit there unused forever either.

No you just have old dormant accounts for that.

That way it is just 1 plex per account and you don't have to worry about the age requirement at all

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Dave Stark
#25 - 2013-03-17 13:16:18 UTC
Rengerel en Distel wrote:
I wonder what other thing that requires you to have an active, subscribed account they wouldn't want you abusing with buddy accounts? If I was them, I wouldn't want 5000 accounts opened just to cast a vote, then sit there unused forever either.


don't the accounts have to also have been active for a certain period of time in order to be eligable to cast a vote?
Frying Doom
#26 - 2013-03-17 13:26:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Frying Doom
Dave Stark wrote:
Rengerel en Distel wrote:
I wonder what other thing that requires you to have an active, subscribed account they wouldn't want you abusing with buddy accounts? If I was them, I wouldn't want 5000 accounts opened just to cast a vote, then sit there unused forever either.


don't the accounts have to also have been active for a certain period of time in order to be eligable to cast a vote?

Nope

CSM White Paper wrote:

VOTER ELIGIBILITY
Any active EVE Online account that is at least a full thirty (30) days in age is eligible to vote.
Only one vote per account — not per character — is permitted.
The thirty day account exclusion rule is to limit undue metagaming influence in the election, and is in line with the precepts of a modern democracy that imposes a minimum age for voting privileges. The only exclusion rule for voting is CCP employee accounts, which are ineligible. Affiliates,volunteers, partners, and interns are permitted to vote.


This is why I have argued for the last 2 years that this loop hole be closed but it is always conveniently missed.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Turrann Dallocort
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#27 - 2013-03-17 13:29:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Turrann Dallocort
Um...if this is so, YES it is a change to something CCP has said in the past was Kosher!

I had an issue with a new account that I set up and not redeeming a CD code I had for upgrading it and receiving the implant that came with the code (my fault, should have put the code in BEFORE upgrading account). Sent in a petition to see if I might be able to retroactively use code. The response I was given, basically as I can not post the exact response, was the GM's recommendation to (1) send a buddy invite to myself to create a 21 day account, (2) activate this account using the CD-Key. This would give my new account 51 days of game time along with the implant AND this would allow me to claim a buddy reward on my own account, 30 day of game time.

So here is a GM telling me to send myself a buddy pass on Jan 9th of this year. So yes, CCP, this would be a change in what was previously allowed.

And while I am posting I would like to add that CCP needs to let me, pretty please, have a pink and purple hulk with sparkles.
Oraac Ensor
#28 - 2013-03-17 13:43:23 UTC
Lashenadeeka wrote:
Oraac Ensor wrote:

This thread is only on its second page.

Is it really too much trouble to read all of it before posting?


His story contains relevant information, and is entirely valid for this thread.

Nope. Everything in his post is answered by the ninth bullet point in the buddy program T&C, as I've already pointed out.

So you haven't bothered to read through all of your own thread? Jeez . . .
Grimbriar Blitz
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2013-03-17 13:44:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Grimbriar Blitz
I petitioned on this topic when I made this alt.

This was the response I got:

[Non-verbatim replication of a petition response saying I could create an alt using that method for regular use using the refer-a-buddy method, and that we were not required to use any other method]
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#30 - 2013-03-17 13:51:50 UTC
Grimbriar Blitz wrote:
I petitioned on this topic when I made this alt.

This was the response I got:

"You are allowed to use the buddy program to create an alt for regular use, you would not be required to use other methods such as a 14 day trial when creating it. If you have any additional questions or matters we can assist with please let me know."


So there you go. Unless you're creating it for throw-away suicide ganking alts or other nefarious means that are considered to be exploiting the system, you can still use it to create alts. Funny how that bullet point already covers this.

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Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#31 - 2013-03-17 13:54:39 UTC
You should probably delete that verbatim response and write it in a more general sense.
Lashenadeeka
Qinglong Fleet
Jade Kirin Alliance
#32 - 2013-03-17 13:55:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Lashenadeeka
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Grimbriar Blitz wrote:
I petitioned on this topic when I made this alt.

This was the response I got:

"You are allowed to use the buddy program to create an alt for regular use, you would not be required to use other methods such as a 14 day trial when creating it. If you have any additional questions or matters we can assist with please let me know."


So there you go. Unless you're creating it for throw-away suicide ganking alts or other nefarious means that are considered to be exploiting the system, you can still use it to create alts. Funny how that bullet point already covers this.


He made that alt 17 days ago. The new bullet point didn't exist back then. I have a feeling people are missing the point somewhat here, I'm not referring to this, which was always around:

Quote:
Abusing the Buddy System is considered an exploit and will not be tolerated. Incidents will be handled on a case by case basis and action taken may include bans for all accounts involved and/or confiscation of ISK and items. Abuse includes, but is not limited to, farming gifts and making throw-away alts for grief-play purposes.


I'm referring to THIS:

Quote:
The Buddy Program is intended for you to encourage new players to join EVE Online. Violating the purpose of the Buddy Program in any way or form is prohibited. Violations of this rule will be handled by EVE Online Customer Support, and action will be taken against players who violate this rule (including, but not limited to, warnings or bans of the offending accounts).


A new alt is not a new player and therefore is a violation of the buddy program and that alt will be banned. Which is contrary to what policy was 17 days ago. Hence we need some sort of CCP explanation.
Grimbriar Blitz
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2013-03-17 13:56:35 UTC
Yes it did, otherwise I wouldn't have petitioned. It wasn't that hard, was it?
Serptimis
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#34 - 2013-03-17 14:01:20 UTC
Laws and policies are often changed to close any loopholes which were previously being exploited.
Only people who were abusing this system need worry, and I'm pretty sure they are the kind of people who pay attention to any rules being changed.
Lashenadeeka
Qinglong Fleet
Jade Kirin Alliance
#35 - 2013-03-17 14:03:10 UTC
Serptimis wrote:
Laws and policies are often changed to close any loopholes which were previously being exploited.
Only people who were abusing this system need worry, and I'm pretty sure they are the kind of people who pay attention to any rules being changed.


So you're saying that making alts using the buddy program was ACTUALLY a loophole being exploited for all this time, even thought GM were actively encouraging it according to the evidence here?

No, no, just no.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#36 - 2013-03-17 14:06:57 UTC
Lashenadeeka wrote:
Serptimis wrote:
Laws and policies are often changed to close any loopholes which were previously being exploited.
Only people who were abusing this system need worry, and I'm pretty sure they are the kind of people who pay attention to any rules being changed.


So you're saying that making alts using the buddy program was ACTUALLY a loophole being exploited for all this time, even thought GM were actively encouraging it according to the evidence here?

No, no, just no.


It's been going on for ages but until now has never been explicitly against the rules in regards to new accounts. Now it is, but don't mistake that as GM's encouraging people to do it all this time, because they never have.

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Oraac Ensor
#37 - 2013-03-17 14:11:32 UTC
Lashenadeeka wrote:
I'm referring to THIS:

Quote:
The Buddy Program is intended for you to encourage new players to join EVE Online. Violating the purpose of the Buddy Program in any way or form is prohibited. Violations of this rule will be handled by EVE Online Customer Support, and action will be taken against players who violate this rule (including, but not limited to, warnings or bans of the offending accounts).

Which is QUALIFIED by this:
Quote:
Abusing the Buddy System is considered an exploit and will not be tolerated. Incidents will be handled on a case by case basis and action taken may include bans for all accounts involved and/or confiscation of ISK and items. Abuse includes, but is not limited to, farming gifts and making throw-away alts for grief-play purposes.

Ye gods . . .
Lashenadeeka
Qinglong Fleet
Jade Kirin Alliance
#38 - 2013-03-17 14:19:56 UTC
Oraac Ensor wrote:
Lashenadeeka wrote:
I'm referring to THIS:

Quote:
The Buddy Program is intended for you to encourage new players to join EVE Online. Violating the purpose of the Buddy Program in any way or form is prohibited. Violations of this rule will be handled by EVE Online Customer Support, and action will be taken against players who violate this rule (including, but not limited to, warnings or bans of the offending accounts).

Which is QUALIFIED by this:
Quote:
Abusing the Buddy System is considered an exploit and will not be tolerated. Incidents will be handled on a case by case basis and action taken may include bans for all accounts involved and/or confiscation of ISK and items. Abuse includes, but is not limited to, farming gifts and making throw-away alts for grief-play purposes.

Ye gods . . .


I think your interpretation is wrong, but mine could of course also be wrong. Only CCP can tell us, so let's sit tight and see what they have to say. They can't really ignore this.
Serptimis
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#39 - 2013-03-17 14:20:47 UTC
Oraac Ensor wrote:
Lashenadeeka wrote:
I'm referring to THIS:

Quote:
The Buddy Program is intended for you to encourage new players to join EVE Online. Violating the purpose of the Buddy Program in any way or form is prohibited. Violations of this rule will be handled by EVE Online Customer Support, and action will be taken against players who violate this rule (including, but not limited to, warnings or bans of the offending accounts).

Which is QUALIFIED by this:
Quote:
Abusing the Buddy System is considered an exploit and will not be tolerated. Incidents will be handled on a case by case basis and action taken may include bans for all accounts involved and/or confiscation of ISK and items. Abuse includes, but is not limited to, farming gifts and making throw-away alts for grief-play purposes.

Ye gods . . .

'..on a case by case basis' , CCP are not saying that using the Buddy programme to make an alt is automatically bannable, it depends on WHY you are making that alt.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#40 - 2013-03-17 14:21:36 UTC
Lashenadeeka wrote:
I think your interpretation is wrong, but mine could of course also be wrong. Only CCP can tell us, so let's sit tight and see what they have to say. They can't really ignore this.


Actually they can & often do when the question has already been answered.

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