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Suicide Ganking.
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Grand Admiral Simo-Hayha
Vigilante Carebears
#1 - 2013-03-16 20:15:59 UTC
Suicide ganking in high sec.

Suicide ganking is, and always has been, a predominent issue with industrialist. Ganking for profit is still a method of money making that encourages a subgroup of players to wage open war on mining ops in high sec, while damaging the economy and driving miners away from systems and away from mining.

Ganking an exumer and having an alternate account that loots and salvages the wreck creates an oppertunity to make high sec ganking a profitable and dominant form of exploitation. Eliminating the profit margin, by making illegal combat non profitable would remove the insentive for suicide ganking in high sec. By making it impossible to loot or salvage wrecks in high security space that have been illegally destroyed would limit ganking further into an even smaller subgroup that will perform ganking for no other reason but entertainment.

Performing illegal attacks in high sec space should not have a dollar sign attacted to it.

By fixing this, it would encourage more players to use mining to accrue the isk they need for other profitable ventures, such as exploring and delving into lower security space, and would provide a more secure enviroment for miners to operate under, while enriching the economy further.

You can still get ganked, but they would be doing it, while losing their isk, and gaining nothing in return with the exception of bounties being collected, which is an acceptable form of law enforcement. This, of course, would not apply to low or null sec operations.
Morgan Torry
Arma Purgatorium
#2 - 2013-03-16 21:20:22 UTC
This is no different than the calls to make all space like nullsec. There are plenty of protections to stop ganks and likewise your own intelligence and forward planning will prevent almost all of them. So let's not make another "Everyone should have to play the game exactly as I do" thread.

Arma Purgatorium - What is Podded May Never Die
Sean Parisi
Blackrise Vanguard
#3 - 2013-03-16 21:22:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Sean Parisi
Are you telling me the solution to my problems is to kill miners? I will get right on that.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#4 - 2013-03-16 23:52:55 UTC
Three things...

- there are barges called the Procurer and Skiff... they can fit tanks that make it very unprofitable and difficult to gank.

- suicide ganking of mining barges is at historic lows now that they have been buffed... and now you want more?

- the victim is usually the one making such a tactic profitable by having too many expensive items on/in his/her ship and/or not taking enough precautions (like fitting a tank or having support nearby).

Also...
Quote:
Performing illegal attacks in high sec space should not have a dollar sign attacted to it.

You have not presented a reasonable reason why you believe the above statement and why the current system should change... at least, nothing beyond "it is wrong" and the false claim that it "damages the economy."

How did you Veterans start?
Gank Knight
Nihilism.
#5 - 2013-03-17 01:25:59 UTC
Quote:
damaging the economy


yeah... no.


I gank miners full time in highsec and I can tell you that profit margins are very low. I basically rely on Hulk salvage to subsidize all of my Retriever kills. Fortunately threads like this make the practice worthwhile.
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#6 - 2013-03-17 10:44:57 UTC
suicide ganking miners boost economy, every kill means that you need to build 2 more ships and more modules and sell those.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#7 - 2013-03-17 12:02:43 UTC
Asteroids have feelings too

.
Jay Kreutzer
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#8 - 2013-03-17 14:03:58 UTC
I find it hilariously ironic that someone named after simo-hayha is complaining about 'unfair' tactics.
Angelique Duchemin
Team Evil
#9 - 2013-03-17 15:54:08 UTC
It's not as profitable as it used to be.

Right now suicide ganking... For the people that do it, is nothing more than... Fun.

Spooky huh? They don't care much for the losses.

The very sun of heaven seemed distorted when viewed through the polarising miasma welling out from this sea-soaked perversion, and twisted menace and suspense lurked leeringly in those crazily elusive angles of carven rock where a second glance shewed concavity after the first shewed convexity.

Mag's
Azn Empire
#10 - 2013-03-17 16:53:03 UTC
Grand Admiral Simo-Hayha wrote:
Performing illegal attacks in high sec space should not have a dollar sign attacted to it.
Of course it should, but that doesn't mean it has to.
CCP give you options in the game. If you decide to use an option that makes you worth ganking, then you must accept the chance of being ganked.

But even then, that still will not exclude you from the chance of being ganked. It simply reduces it. You accept being ganked whenever you undock.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Fireflyb1
Walden 2.0
#11 - 2013-03-17 19:28:22 UTC
Angelique Duchemin wrote:
It's not as profitable as it used to be.

Right now suicide ganking... For the people that do it, is nothing more than... Fun.

Spooky huh? They don't care much for the losses.


No one suicide ganks for the profit.. everyone who suicide ganks does it for the same reason that people do corp theft/scams, "funny wars", and all the other negatively associated acts that the real world would frown upon (and whose rules do not appear to apply in the world of Eve)...

This game's mechanics seem to be configured in just the right way for normal people from the real world to step into their scum-slicked shoes and wreak whatever kind of mayhem or idiocy they may desire... it's really quite amazing when you think about it.

The kind of perverse satisfaction that people get from suicide ganking or corp theft/piracy (in addition to the same satisfaction others get from reading about it) is almost an opposite of mainstream society, where movies depict these kind of characters as the "bad" person... here, they're on the same playing field as everyone else.
Angelique Duchemin
Team Evil
#12 - 2013-03-17 20:05:22 UTC
I do however still feel that ship insurance should be void if the ship is destroyed by concord.

The very sun of heaven seemed distorted when viewed through the polarising miasma welling out from this sea-soaked perversion, and twisted menace and suspense lurked leeringly in those crazily elusive angles of carven rock where a second glance shewed concavity after the first shewed convexity.

Machiavelli's Nemesis
Angry Mustellid
#13 - 2013-03-17 20:30:24 UTC
There's no such thing as suicide ganking.

It's a silly fairy story told to baby bears by their carebear parents.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2013-03-17 20:35:51 UTC
There is no empirical evidence that suicide ganking "damages" the market, and there never has been.

There is, however, a wealth of empirical evidence that terrible threads like these decrease my faith in humanity.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#15 - 2013-03-17 21:49:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Fireflyb1 wrote:
Angelique Duchemin wrote:
It's not as profitable as it used to be.

Right now suicide ganking... For the people that do it, is nothing more than... Fun.

Spooky huh? They don't care much for the losses.


No one suicide ganks for the profit.. everyone who suicide ganks does it for the same reason that people do corp theft/scams, "funny wars", and all the other negatively associated acts that the real world would frown upon (and whose rules do not appear to apply in the world of Eve)...

This game's mechanics seem to be configured in just the right way for normal people from the real world to step into their scum-slicked shoes and wreak whatever kind of mayhem or idiocy they may desire... it's really quite amazing when you think about it.

The kind of perverse satisfaction that people get from suicide ganking or corp theft/piracy (in addition to the same satisfaction others get from reading about it) is almost an opposite of mainstream society, where movies depict these kind of characters as the "bad" person... here, they're on the same playing field as everyone else.
To say no one suicide ganks for profit, is disingenuous to say the least. Sure some do it for lolz, but not 'everyone'.

Also what do morals have to do with anything? It's a game with rules and people play by those rules. Your argument is much like saying people shooting others in CoD or BF3, is awful and makes them perverse. Or that a good chess player taking another persons queen is just wrong, as the other player may get upset.

Eve never tries or advertises itself as anything but a place where scamming, theft and loss must be expected and even promoted.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Gank Knight
Nihilism.
#16 - 2013-03-18 00:24:04 UTC
Angelique Duchemin wrote:
I do however still feel that ship insurance should be void if the ship is destroyed by concord.



It is.
Fireflyb1
Walden 2.0
#17 - 2013-03-18 00:49:30 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Fireflyb1 wrote:
Angelique Duchemin wrote:
It's not as profitable as it used to be.

Right now suicide ganking... For the people that do it, is nothing more than... Fun.

Spooky huh? They don't care much for the losses.


No one suicide ganks for the profit.. everyone who suicide ganks does it for the same reason that people do corp theft/scams, "funny wars", and all the other negatively associated acts that the real world would frown upon (and whose rules do not appear to apply in the world of Eve)...

This game's mechanics seem to be configured in just the right way for normal people from the real world to step into their scum-slicked shoes and wreak whatever kind of mayhem or idiocy they may desire... it's really quite amazing when you think about it.

The kind of perverse satisfaction that people get from suicide ganking or corp theft/piracy (in addition to the same satisfaction others get from reading about it) is almost an opposite of mainstream society, where movies depict these kind of characters as the "bad" person... here, they're on the same playing field as everyone else.
To say no one suicide ganks for profit, is disingenuous to say the least. Sure some do it for lolz, but not 'everyone'.

Also what do morals have to do with anything? It's a game with rules and people play by those rules. Your argument is much like saying people shooting others in CoD or BF3, is awful and makes them perverse. Or that a good chess player taking another persons queen is just wrong, as the other player may get upset.

Eve never tries or advertises itself as anything but a place where scamming, theft and loss must be expected and even promoted.


Sorry, I meant to say that the BASE cause for suicide ganking was in ignorance of morals, and some do it for profit...

and the rest of your post was confirming mine...
Mag's
Azn Empire
#18 - 2013-03-18 00:55:36 UTC
Fireflyb1 wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Fireflyb1 wrote:


No one suicide ganks for the profit.. everyone who suicide ganks does it for the same reason that people do corp theft/scams, "funny wars", and all the other negatively associated acts that the real world would frown upon (and whose rules do not appear to apply in the world of Eve)...

This game's mechanics seem to be configured in just the right way for normal people from the real world to step into their scum-slicked shoes and wreak whatever kind of mayhem or idiocy they may desire... it's really quite amazing when you think about it.

The kind of perverse satisfaction that people get from suicide ganking or corp theft/piracy (in addition to the same satisfaction others get from reading about it) is almost an opposite of mainstream society, where movies depict these kind of characters as the "bad" person... here, they're on the same playing field as everyone else.
To say no one suicide ganks for profit, is disingenuous to say the least. Sure some do it for lolz, but not 'everyone'.

Also what do morals have to do with anything? It's a game with rules and people play by those rules. Your argument is much like saying people shooting others in CoD or BF3, is awful and makes them perverse. Or that a good chess player taking another persons queen is just wrong, as the other player may get upset.

Eve never tries or advertises itself as anything but a place where scamming, theft and loss must be expected and even promoted.


Sorry, I meant to say that the BASE cause for suicide ganking was in ignorance of morals, and some do it for profit...

and the rest of your post was confirming mine...
Actually you said no one, but if you know you were wrong then that's fine. My post merely confirmed that.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#19 - 2013-03-18 02:08:52 UTC  |  Edited by: IbanezLaney
Grand Admiral Simo-Hayha wrote:
Suicide ganking in high sec.

Suicide ganking is, and always has been, a predominent issue with industrialist. Ganking for profit is still a method of money making that encourages a subgroup of players to wage open war on mining ops in high sec, while damaging the economy and driving miners away from systems and away from mining.

Ganking an exumer and having an alternate account that loots and salvages the wreck creates an oppertunity to make high sec ganking a profitable and dominant form of exploitation. Eliminating the profit margin, by making illegal combat non profitable would remove the insentive for suicide ganking in high sec. By making it impossible to loot or salvage wrecks in high security space that have been illegally destroyed would limit ganking further into an even smaller subgroup that will perform ganking for no other reason but entertainment.

Performing illegal attacks in high sec space should not have a dollar sign attacted to it.

By fixing this, it would encourage more players to use mining to accrue the isk they need for other profitable ventures, such as exploring and delving into lower security space, and would provide a more secure enviroment for miners to operate under, while enriching the economy further.

You can still get ganked, but they would be doing it, while losing their isk, and gaining nothing in return with the exception of bounties being collected, which is an acceptable form of law enforcement. This, of course, would not apply to low or null sec operations.



Seriously dude - low sec is where you should mine. It's way safer.

I mine in Hykanima all the time. We have orca boosts and all - bring your hulk and join the mining fun.
Never had a problem mining in Hykanima. TBH - I have never lost even one mining barge there so far.

Just convo me when you get there and I'll happily come help. Big smile


Edit:
How can you have illegal combat in a game about blowing up internet spaceships?
Isn't that the point of eve?

https://soundcloud.com/ibanezlaney
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#20 - 2013-03-18 10:06:50 UTC
Grand Admiral Simo-Hayha wrote:
Suicide ganking in high sec.

Suicide ganking is, and always has been, a predominent issue with industrialist. Ganking for profit is still a method of money making that encourages a subgroup of players to wage open war on mining ops in high sec, while damaging the economy and driving miners away from systems and away from mining.

Ganking an exumer and having an alternate account that loots and salvages the wreck creates an oppertunity to make high sec ganking a profitable and dominant form of exploitation. Eliminating the profit margin, by making illegal combat non profitable would remove the insentive for suicide ganking in high sec. By making it impossible to loot or salvage wrecks in high security space that have been illegally destroyed would limit ganking further into an even smaller subgroup that will perform ganking for no other reason but entertainment.

Performing illegal attacks in high sec space should not have a dollar sign attacted to it.

By fixing this, it would encourage more players to use mining to accrue the isk they need for other profitable ventures, such as exploring and delving into lower security space, and would provide a more secure enviroment for miners to operate under, while enriching the economy further.

You can still get ganked, but they would be doing it, while losing their isk, and gaining nothing in return with the exception of bounties being collected, which is an acceptable form of law enforcement. This, of course, would not apply to low or null sec operations.


a) why shouldn't miners and industrialists have to deal with other players wanting to gank them? The miners and industrialists have a direct effect on prices and availability of everything I buy and use, why should I not be able to have an effect on them?

b) Why shouldn't ganking have the potential to be profitable?

c) Why shouldn't there be incentive for suicide ganking in highsec? This is a PVP game about shooting spaceships, so it makes no sense to remove incentives to shoot spaceships. Even in highsec. Highsec is not meant to be a perfect little carebear paradise, never was. Deal with it.

d) Why do we need to encourage more players to mine? Look at any belt or ice field in highsec and you'll find dozens of barges mining away. There are plenty of miners.

e) Claiming that making it easier for miners to make isk without threat would lead to an increased number of them venturing into low and null is bullshit. The whole "well I'd come to low/null and you could fight me if only my highsec carebearing was easier and more profitable!" line is a flat out lie. Bears are bears not because they can't afford to pvp in low/null, they're bears because they don't want to PVP at all. They want to watch the little number in their wallet increase, maybe buy something shiny to look at in the station. They do not want to actually experience the rest of EVE, otherwise they would have already. I'm tired of this lie.
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