These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

And you thought HI was too safe???? Welcome to Thunderdome™

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Apocryphal Noise
Close Encounters of the EVE Kind
Goonswarm Federation
#41 - 2013-03-16 11:21:21 UTC
The whole idea of the wargames was a big **** you to CCP so they would stand up and notice how absolutely godawful the sov grind is and how it burns out entire alliances
Athena Maldoran
Doomheim
#42 - 2013-03-16 11:29:53 UTC
These statements represent a hint of truth.. But Op seems drunk..
Velicitia
XS Tech
#43 - 2013-03-16 11:30:56 UTC
Primary This Rifter wrote:
Welcome to the jumgle.


wanna bring you to your nananananananananananana knees! Cool

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#44 - 2013-03-16 11:45:35 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
how safe high sec is, is irrelevant.
it's what you can do within such a safe environment which is the issue.

i assume this is another "nerf high sec" thread?


Yes, DarthNefarius wants highsec to be nerfed because he feels he makes too much isk safely killing Sansha's all day. Also something unimportant about nullsec & tech.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Dave Stark
#45 - 2013-03-16 11:56:52 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
how safe high sec is, is irrelevant.
it's what you can do within such a safe environment which is the issue.

i assume this is another "nerf high sec" thread?


Yes, DarthNefarius wants highsec to be nerfed because he feels he makes too much isk safely killing Sansha's all day. Also something unimportant about nullsec & tech.


so i was close enough with my assumption, and there's very little point in actually reading most of the posts?

right-o, thanks.
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#46 - 2013-03-16 12:39:01 UTC
Oh the pains of empire and trying for absolute control over everything.

Here I come with the water barge, to collect the tears.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#47 - 2013-03-16 12:49:20 UTC
Apocryphal Noise wrote:
The whole idea of the wargames was a big **** you to CCP so they would stand up and notice how absolutely godawful the sov grind is and how it burns out entire alliances

Pretty much, yeah.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#48 - 2013-03-16 12:53:04 UTC
Apocryphal Noise wrote:
The whole idea of the wargames was a big **** you to CCP so they would stand up and notice how absolutely godawful the sov grind is and how it burns out entire alliances


It's also a bad idea in terms of its stated goal.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#49 - 2013-03-16 12:53:49 UTC
Having actually read the linked article it looks to me like Shadoo is trying to recreate his own version of CCP's own FW system over in Cloud Ring.

So... what's the problem again? Oh yeah, it keeps the Blue Doughnut interested enough to keep playing without starting a war big enough to inflict any actual harm to the Blue Doughnut. In other words, it avoids the two outcomes that can bring down the Blue Doughnut, namely bittervets unsubscribing from boredom and the possibility of the Blue Doughnut becoming a Red Doughnut.

Regardless of my own feelings, if I place myself in their shoes for a minute I can see that I would be enjoying the comfort & security of living in a place that is as profitable as sov claimed blue nullsec combined with even greater effective safety than even half of hisec could offer. Moon goo faucets for infinite PLEX and infinite goodies would certainly be a load off my mind, to be sure, and if I had that I certainly would not want it going away. I'd actively fight to protect it. In this instance "fight" actually means CSM block voting for special interest candidates and political manipulations to make sure that nothing ever changes.

And that's pretty much what has happened and frankly I don't blame them for it. Blue Doughnut is good, especially if you happen to be part of it. They've got the moons and the "T2 BPOs for Nespotic Brown-nosing" arrangement that makes T2 stuff so absurdly cheap that actual T2 invention is completely & utterly pointless - which I'm fine with because it saves me both time & ISK that I'd otherwise be wasting on it. So yeah, at the end of the day I like Blue Doughnut even though I'm not a part of it.

In fact, the only time I give a rat's arse about it when those bored null bittervets come here and whine about highsec. Redirecting their own personal problems & angst at us because the alternative would be shaking things up at home and they're just not comfortable with anything that might interrupt the flow of their ISK faucets.

So if creating a "Thunderdome" gives those guys something to do besides vomit out another "nerf hisec" thread approximately every 16 hours then more power to Thunderdome! Yes, if Thunderdome makes nullbears happy enough to keep cranking out cheapo T2 goods for my hisec carebear pleasure without endless whining then I'm totally behind that. Now quit whining and get back to work, pubbies. We're running low on Scorch crystals over in 1.0

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#50 - 2013-03-16 13:08:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
So... what's the problem again? Oh yeah, it keeps the Blue Doughnut interested enough to keep playing without starting a war big enough to inflict any actual harm to the Blue Doughnut. In other words, it avoids the two outcomes that can bring down the Blue Doughnut, namely bittervets unsubscribing from boredom and the possibility of the Blue Doughnut becoming a Red Doughnut.
…too bad that the blue doughnut doesn't actually exist. If it did, those things might have actually been real problems..

Quote:
Moon goo faucets for infinite PLEX and infinite goodies would certainly be a load off my mind, to be sure, and if I had that I certainly would not want it going away. I'd actively fight to protect it. In this instance "fight" actually means CSM block voting for special interest candidates and political manipulations to make sure that nothing ever changes.
…and that would have been a good way of doing it. It's rather strange that the CSM has a long history of doing the exact opposite, isn't it? Actually, it's rather suggest that it's a good thing that we have a good representation on the CSM rather than the likes of you.

Quote:
And that's pretty much what has happened and frankly I don't blame them for it. Blue Doughnut is good, especially if you happen to be part of it. They've got the moons and the "T2 BPOs for Nespotic Brown-nosing" arrangement that makes T2 stuff so absurdly cheap that actual T2 invention is completely & utterly pointless
…except that T2 invention is very ridiculously profitable and there's a very good point in doing it: you earn oodles of ISK. The existence of BPOs, for one, does not make it any less profitable — quite the opposite, invention has rather made BPO holding pointless.

Quote:
In fact, the only time I give a rat's arse about it when those bored null bittervets come here and whine about highsec.
…in other words, the only time you gives a rat's arse about it is when people don't come and ask CCP to balance the game. It's a bit odd behaviour, but following the pattern of your previous “facts”, I can only conclude that this is the case, no matter how weird it ends up sounding.
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#51 - 2013-03-16 16:04:16 UTC
I want some of what you're smoking. P

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#52 - 2013-03-16 16:07:44 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
I want some of what you're smoking. P

Ham? Well, sure. It'd be a far healthier substitute to the hallucinogens you've been breathing.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#53 - 2013-03-16 16:25:39 UTC
Andski wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
While some say the World works in hyprocrisy i still think it fumbles over itself & ends up worse off for it... guess there is only 1 way to learn ( & yet still ignore the lesson )


several smaller alliances occupying some sov space can certainly form a defensive bloc that only sets standings when one of them faces a larger external threat, and such blocs exist

of course they'd probably get mopped away by a more organized bloc if it came to that but, again, that's just the law of the jungle



How do you "fix" the "problem" about any entity ever trying to set a foot inside SOV Null where they basicly know by now that everything will fall appart no amtter what unless they ally themself with X, Y or Z? CUrrently, it looks like any entity not allied with one of the major powerblock is either in a place deemed woprthless or on borrowed time untill one of the block decide they are bored and actaully will start a war. The projection of power then do it's job and remove that entity.

I underswtand there is a shitload of work behind all the inner working of Goonswarm for example to enable that kind of power projection but isn't this partly making the game more stale because of the feeling people get that it's not worth the hassle to go there if you are not part of it or another powerblock? To me it seems like going through the effort of building a large sandcastle at low tide on a beach...
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2013-03-16 16:39:51 UTC
Balthisus Filtch wrote:
So here is the problem with fixing moon goo.

New player base comes from 2 main places.

1 - random people pulled in by marketing, PR and advertising

2. - the 2 big nullsec blocks which feed players into the game from the IRL websites they are linked to

The majority of people want to play games casually (if you don't believe that then just look at the dumbing down of any major franchise). Unsurprisingly then a significant portion of new players that arrive in EVE also want to play casually. If developers don't cater to them then the game suffers significantly financially.

The random ppl joining in hi-sec get relative safety and a mission system/ship progression to suit their needs.

Those joining major power block get free ships and modules paid for by Moon goo. Their game consists of no hassle /hard work major fleet fights.

Turn off the moon goo and free stuff alliance programs and you might just turn off a significant route by which new players are attracted into and retained in the game. Clearly Moon Goo is totally game unbalancing and totally unfair..... BUT having implemented it, how do they get themselves out of it without damaging themselves financially.

IMO this is why the most obvious fix in the game hasn't appeared to gather any momentum to being fixed. CCP aren't stupid, they see the problem - but there is no win win solution right now.

Final killer - its the new players that pay for subscriptions - the older player base are in the main buying plex from new players - so financially new players are the lifeblood of the game. So that moon goo led gameplay driven by the IRL websites is really key to CCP, that constant stream of new players joining and leaving is good for them.


Free-stuff alliance programs only work because those alliances are impoverishing their playerbase to do it. Implement ring mining, make moon-goo acquisition a player-level activity and you rest the chains from the alliances who make free-stuff programs attractive because you, as a player, can't make enough to fund your own game play. Trickle-down economics only works to enrich those in control which is basically what moon-goo is doing.

I guess that's why a lot of nullsec-ers are moving to w-space?

Don't ban me, bro!
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
#55 - 2013-03-16 17:10:27 UTC
Andski wrote:
hisec incursion runners are upset over how things are done, refuse to do anything about it despite having hundreds of billions of isk to play with, opt to run more incursions instead



You seem confused about the balance of isk.

Here's some homework for you....

How many incursion runners does it take to balance out one tech moon? Smile

How many man hours does it take to run incursions, and compared to maintaining a single pos?

Let us know when you have some real numbers....


Besides, don't all your grunts have alts run incursions since they are safer than 0.0?

Signature removed - CCP Eterne
Dave Stark
#56 - 2013-03-16 17:11:57 UTC
Beekeeper Bob wrote:
Andski wrote:
hisec incursion runners are upset over how things are done, refuse to do anything about it despite having hundreds of billions of isk to play with, opt to run more incursions instead



You seem confused about the balance of isk.

Here's some homework for you....

How many incursion runners does it take to balance out one tech moon? Smile

How many man hours does it take to run incursions, and compared to maintaining a single pos?

Let us know when you have some real numbers....


Besides, don't all your grunts have alts run incursions since they are safer than 0.0?


i fail to see how that changes the point that instead of doing something about it, they come on the forums and roll their face across the keyboard then hit post.
Goddamned American Capitalist
Doomheim
#57 - 2013-03-16 17:14:07 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
Gotta like how the spacerich NULLbears try to paint SOV as too tuff while amassing TECH fortunes that'll last for years....
Every future expansion that doesn't address the moon goo bottle neck that lead to this Thunderdome™ is another expansion that in IMHO will lead to NULL's stagnation....
While I understand Shaddooo's tactical desire to have TECH funded gudfights for his owns everlasting tech funded wars the rest of Eve will suffer...
Instead of misdirecting all Eve's ills on HI SEC lets point it at were its due: its time to break the near TECH monoploy CCPAttention


It isn't just Tech my friend, there is also Neo now as well.

The only people who don't want Moon Goo fixed are those with high-end Moon Goo. I know, they say they do want it fixed, but I don't see them packing up all of their moon harvesters and ceasing production, do you?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#58 - 2013-03-16 17:27:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Goddamned American Capitalist wrote:
It isn't just Tech my friend, there is also Neo now as well.

The only people who don't want Moon Goo fixed are those with high-end Moon Goo.
Fixed. At least they're the only ones trying to do something about it. For some reason, people without moon goo seem adamant that things must absolutely not change in any way… wonder why that is.

Beekeeper Bob wrote:
Here's some homework for you....

How many incursion runners does it take to balance out one tech moon? Smile
Zero. The two have nothing to do with each other since they operate on completely different scales.
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#59 - 2013-03-16 17:33:47 UTC
Primary This Rifter wrote:
Tech isn't the problem. The sov grind is.


sov grind is half the problem

the other half is that some big alliances and even individuals like shadoo want to keep the space and riches they have without having to continue to keep up the effort. "but we'll burn out or get bored!" they protest - well, good. Then some new fresh faces will get to shine, and grab a piece of the pie.

The wargames stuff is just the latest step towards total stagnation in null
Goddamned American Capitalist
Doomheim
#60 - 2013-03-16 17:36:37 UTC
So you're saying that I don't want moon goo fixed? Hell, I'd probably log in immediately and reactivate the inactive accounts I have if I were shown proof that moon goo had been shut off completely.

Those who have it want to keep it, most of those who don't have it and want it are too lazy to take it.

I had it once, gave it up by choice and hope for the day it is removed.

It doesn't create the conflict CCP hoped it would anymore, it only helps to suppress it. It serves no purpose other than to print ISK for those who have it.