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Off grid boosting fix is like waiting for a miracle?
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Chi'Nane T'Kal
Interminatus
#121 - 2013-01-30 11:08:54 UTC
Othran wrote:

I don't believe its technically possible for CCP to prevent OGB. Prevent boosting from a POS yes, but not applying the boosts to one grid in a system.


It would be pretty easy to limit to on grid. For example they could limit the boost to locked friendly targets. If they wanted to make it more active, you'd even have to activate a module on your target to give it a temporary boost (longer than cycle time, obviously). (Of course that might have unintended/intended(?) implications like jamming the booster)

Alternatively they could cause the booster modules to generate a pulsing aura comparable to smartbombs, just larger, which applies a temporary buff. In this case buff duration and cycle time could be comparable.
Silk daShocka
Greasy Hair Club
#122 - 2013-01-30 18:13:13 UTC
Chi'Nane T'Kal wrote:
Othran wrote:

I don't believe its technically possible for CCP to prevent OGB. Prevent boosting from a POS yes, but not applying the boosts to one grid in a system.


It would be pretty easy to limit to on grid. For example they could limit the boost to locked friendly targets. If they wanted to make it more active, you'd even have to activate a module on your target to give it a temporary boost (longer than cycle time, obviously). (Of course that might have unintended/intended(?) implications like jamming the booster)

Alternatively they could cause the booster modules to generate a pulsing aura comparable to smartbombs, just larger, which applies a temporary buff. In this case buff duration and cycle time could be comparable.


Or, they could do something similar to bubbles, since bubbles already don't cross grids.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#123 - 2013-01-30 18:20:07 UTC
I would think limiting it to a grid would be an easy check. Is the ship in your fleet and visible in space? I so, it gets a boost.

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Minor Tom
Floating Tin Can Exploration Corp
#124 - 2013-02-04 18:05:26 UTC
Easy quick fix for low and null: Have turning on a non-mining boost module light a beacon in system.
Aren Madigan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#125 - 2013-02-04 18:40:05 UTC
Minor Tom wrote:
Easy quick fix for low and null: Have turning on a non-mining boost module light a beacon in system.


Maybe not a beacon, but at least some way to trace it. Like maybe a scanner module meant to tap into fleet comms and detect their boosters.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#126 - 2013-02-04 18:54:51 UTC
Minor Tom wrote:
Easy quick fix for low and null: Have turning on a non-mining boost module light a beacon in system.



Good point the faction war buttons can instantly tell if you are within 30k of it. It immediately stops when you are outside of it. Plus you do not get lp if you are outside of it and someone else is. Use the same mechanic for boosts at whatever range they want.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Minor Tom
Floating Tin Can Exploration Corp
#127 - 2013-02-04 19:14:11 UTC
My suggestion is assuming off grid still works, just make it have consequences by lighting a beacon that can be warped to.

Benefits should have costs.
Morgan North
Dark-Rising
Wrecking Machine.
#128 - 2013-03-16 09:31:00 UTC
I think the solution could be...

Create a set of skills that mimic the off-grid boosting. To be best of the possible effects you could ever get from off grid bosting.

Then make said skills completly non stackeable with leadership related skills bonuses and skills and particularly boosting effects.

Presto, solved, all of us solo'ers sped a few more months in skill training, and everyone else doesn't while they cntinue fling their offgrid booster alt.

Balanced field. :)
Domina Trix
McKNOBBLER DRINKING CLAN
#129 - 2013-03-16 11:54:11 UTC
If off grid sniping was deemed to be an exploit then why are they allowing off grid boosting? I am not saying OGB is an exploit but it is certainly avoiding game mechanics such as having that boosting ship popped.

Two of the defining characteristics of a carebear are wanting other players to play the way the carebear wants and whining on the forums for the game to change when they don't. Yet I see more threads on these forums from gankers than I do miners whining about wanting the game changed to suit them.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#130 - 2013-03-16 11:58:12 UTC
There is an easy to implement, balanced solution to OGBs, that makes gang boosting an interesting, playable role and benefits small gangs more than blobs:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=193317

hth

.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#131 - 2013-03-16 12:04:37 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Posted in the thread about combat battlecruisers:

James Amril-Kesh wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
We eventually want links to be something you use on field

As I've stated repeatedly restricting links to be on-field only is a bad idea. Fleets can't all always be on the same grid at the same time. If I'm part of a small gang chasing potential targets around the interceptors are going to need the benefit of skirmish gang links, but because they have different warp speeds there's two options here, neither of which are attractive at all: either the interceptor warps after the target alone and loses the fleet bonus, or it warps along with the boosting ship - while that ensures the interceptor will have the skirmish bonuses when they land, you're cutting the ceptor down to less than a quarter of its original warp speed and so chances are you won't be able to catch up with a target that's warped off ahead of you.

There are other problems with forcing links to be on field including the fact that the only way to get the best industrial bonuses is to use a several billion isk ship that's completely immobile and defenseless for five minute blocks of time - forcing the bonuses to be on grid won't bring the ship on grid, it will simply mean that the only reason anyone will ever use the industrial core is for compression jobs.

There are ways to solve the problem of invincible OGB ships - forcing all of them to be on grid is not one of the more comprehensive solutions.


In addition there's the issue of "on-grid" not necessarily meaning "at risk". I can park my boosting ship 300km from the gang and nobody will be able to touch it.


It's super difficult to probe ships on grid and it takes a long time c/d?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#132 - 2013-03-16 12:06:05 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
I would think limiting it to a grid would be an easy check. Is the ship in your fleet and visible in space? I so, it gets a boost.


I find that all technical problems I know nothing about are childishly simple.

Curse my luck in only knowing how to solve difficult, time consuming problems! Cry

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#133 - 2013-03-16 12:32:36 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Requiring boosters be on grid is one of the most player upvoted proposals on the csm's assembly hall.

Yet it seems it didn't get much attention from the csm meeting


You seem to be assuming that there is some sort of connection between the desires of CSMs and the desires of playerbase majority. That's so cute. P

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#134 - 2013-03-16 12:51:40 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
It's super difficult to probe ships on grid and it takes a long time c/d?

And stay aligned to a safe or to another on-grid bookmark that's too far away to touch.
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
#135 - 2013-03-16 17:14:52 UTC
Buhhdust Princess wrote:
Xuse Senna wrote:
These boost allow small/Solo pilots the ability to engage those massive blobs people always complain about xD


Exactly this.

At the moment you very rarely see "Fkin blobbers" or anything like that in local (You do, but theyre just scrubs).

EVE is supposed to be fun, unfortunately now, people are so risk averse that they only fight in huge numbers, OGB allow you to do things like this:
http://cyn0.syn-dot.com/index.php/kill_related/12833/ (Please allow the KB link it's to prove a point).

Without the tengu boost, we would've ALL died, and without the loki we couldn't of caught anything. Tell me how that is going to IMPROVE this game? So now blobs can dominate you with a push of a button? At this moment, blobs have to think about what they're going to do tactically, and not underestimate their opponent, after the OGB nerf, its instadeath



What a crock of crap....

People who use off-grid alts are lazy, risk adverse people, they are looking to gank, not take on some blob...

Signature removed - CCP Eterne
Varesk
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#136 - 2013-03-16 17:28:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Varesk
Beekeeper Bob wrote:
Buhhdust Princess wrote:
Xuse Senna wrote:
These boost allow small/Solo pilots the ability to engage those massive blobs people always complain about xD


Exactly this.

At the moment you very rarely see "Fkin blobbers" or anything like that in local (You do, but theyre just scrubs).

EVE is supposed to be fun, unfortunately now, people are so risk averse that they only fight in huge numbers, OGB allow you to do things like this:
http://cyn0.syn-dot.com/index.php/kill_related/12833/ (Please allow the KB link it's to prove a point).

Without the tengu boost, we would've ALL died, and without the loki we couldn't of caught anything. Tell me how that is going to IMPROVE this game? So now blobs can dominate you with a push of a button? At this moment, blobs have to think about what they're going to do tactically, and not underestimate their opponent, after the OGB nerf, its instadeath



What a crock of crap....

People who use off-grid alts are lazy, risk adverse people, they are looking to gank, not take on some blob...



I use OFG boosters all the time in fleets. Not solo ganking.

If OFG boosting gets nerfed to only being able to boost ongrid. Miners will cry. Since this Nerf will have to cover both PVP and PVE boosting.
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
#137 - 2013-03-16 18:44:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Beekeeper Bob
Varesk wrote:
Beekeeper Bob wrote:
Buhhdust Princess wrote:
Xuse Senna wrote:
These boost allow small/Solo pilots the ability to engage those massive blobs people always complain about xD


Exactly this.

At the moment you very rarely see "Fkin blobbers" or anything like that in local (You do, but theyre just scrubs).

EVE is supposed to be fun, unfortunately now, people are so risk averse that they only fight in huge numbers, OGB allow you to do things like this:
http://cyn0.syn-dot.com/index.php/kill_related/12833/ (Please allow the KB link it's to prove a point).

Without the tengu boost, we would've ALL died, and without the loki we couldn't of caught anything. Tell me how that is going to IMPROVE this game? So now blobs can dominate you with a push of a button? At this moment, blobs have to think about what they're going to do tactically, and not underestimate their opponent, after the OGB nerf, its instadeath



What a crock of crap....

People who use off-grid alts are lazy, risk adverse people, they are looking to gank, not take on some blob...



I use OFG boosters all the time in fleets. Not solo ganking.

If OFG boosting gets nerfed to only being able to boost ongrid. Miners will cry. Since this Nerf will have to cover both PVP and PVE boosting.


I'm ok with that...It should affect everyone equally...
Off grid boosting is a broken mechanic, CCP knows and admits this.
So it's really about finding a Dev who knows how to properly use flags, and if there is no "Ongrid flag" then a simple distance calc would do it as well....say 250k?

It's funny, but in most fleets I flew in over the last few years, many of the command ships were on-grid, guess there are simply too many risk-adverse people in the game now.....Or too many alts....Roll

Signature removed - CCP Eterne
Sven Viko VIkolander
In space we are briefly free
#138 - 2013-03-19 02:39:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Sven Viko VIkolander
The simple fact is (vets, get your tissues) OGBs hurt new players getting into pvp, and that is what matters. It solely benefits players with enough experience and account age(s), but it is the influx of new players at the moment that is keeping eve afloat. Since virtually every ship rebalanced so far has been aimed at making pvp in EVE more accessible and competitive (and more enjoyable) and with more options for newer players--and has largely succeeded so far in that-- OGB boosts is on the chopping block and needs to be fixed ASAP. I don't care if it takes breaking 10 things to remove it, or requires, say, having fleetmates targeted to boost them--it doesn't matter, OGB needs to go.

The amount of a gap it puts between the vet and the newb in the same ship with the same fittings is simply massive--yet that is not the only problem. The bigger problem is that it puts the vet at such a huge advantage with very little risk involved, and that is entirely contrary to the nature of EVE. Having a 2b isk set of implants gives the player an advantage, but with massive risk. Having a 2b OGB gives the player a massive advantage, at virtually no added risk. That's not EVE.
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#139 - 2013-03-19 10:11:17 UTC
Aren Madigan wrote:
Minor Tom wrote:
Easy quick fix for low and null: Have turning on a non-mining boost module light a beacon in system.


Maybe not a beacon, but at least some way to trace it. Like maybe a scanner module meant to tap into fleet comms and detect their boosters.


Some way to trace it?

Hmm, you mean like expanded probe launcher? Roll
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#140 - 2013-03-19 10:17:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Diesel47
Limit OGB bonus to gangs of 5-6 pilots and less.

If you want to boost a blob, you need to have it on grid.



Stop supporting CSM badplayers that think eve is only about blobs.