These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page123Next page
 

Buying (and Possibly Selling) Skillpoints to Ease the New Player Experience

First post
Author
Din Chao
#21 - 2013-03-16 03:11:03 UTC
Jeremy Tebeau wrote:
To make myself clear, I like that the system allows you to advance without having to put large amounts of time into the game, but I simply wish to alleviate the problem of not being able to advance significantly faster and thus having to wait to play well.

If you think my idea is bad, then propose a better one. If you like the system as it is, then say so. The floor is yours.

The problem is you think having more skill points faster is helpful. Having 40 mil skill points does not mean you can "play well." The system we have now has already been tweaked over the last ten years.

Train Cybernetics to 5 and get some +5 implants. Best we can do for you right now...
Jeremy Tebeau
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2013-03-16 03:17:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Jeremy Tebeau
Implants are not the solution because, although I could get a set if I really wanted, I am a PvP player and I die too often to be able to hope to be able to replace them every time. I would have to stop playing for the next few months and that is not an option.

I also realize that player skill is more significant that skills. But when the disparity is this great and my opponent at least halfway decent, it makes it nearly impossible to beat him in 1v1. Fleets help, but the problem still exists.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#23 - 2013-03-16 03:18:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Jeremy Tebeau wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
First up, this should really be in features and ideas.

Welcome to Eve OP, it's been discussed many times before and the general consensus of opinion is nope.

While an older player may well have exponentially more skill points, they only give him choice, and expensive clones. A newbie in a frigate, can be extremely effective in FW from day one, if you can pack tackle you'll always be welcome in fleets, hero tacklers are much appreciated, sometimes with cash or ships, sometimes with an older player sharing their knowledge and advice. Specialise in only a couple of types of ship, by knowing the capabilities of both yourself and your ships, you will soon be the equal or better than a player in a similar vessel, who has 100 million SP more than you do, but isn't as specialised.

All of the major alliances got to where they are now, 2 in particular are infamous for it, on the backs of newbies in frigates.


Thank you for making a CONSTRUCTIVE comment. I actually agree with you, although I still wish there was a way to speed training that wasn't lost if you get podded.


You can somewhat mitigate the podding loss with jump clones, you can jump once every 24 hours. Have one in highsec, with attribute implants that you can jump into for a few days if you're doing something other than PvP, just jump back into a lowsec zero implant or cheap combat implant clone for FW.

If you don't know about jumpclones, look into it, you can get them with no standings grind via Estel Arador Corp Services

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Jim Era
#24 - 2013-03-16 03:18:46 UTC
I say we all try to kill OP as much as possible for not getting it.

Wat™

Jeremy Tebeau
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2013-03-16 03:27:25 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
You can somewhat mitigate the podding loss with jump clones, you can jump once every 24 hours. Have one in highsec, with attribute implants that you can jump into for a few days if you're doing something other than PvP, just jump back into a lowsec zero implant or cheap combat implant clone for FW.

If you don't know about jumpclones, look into it, you can get them with no standings grind via Estel Arador Corp Services


Thanks you again for being constructive, that is actually helpful to me and to others in my place.
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#26 - 2013-03-16 03:39:13 UTC
...to ease new player experiance or ease rich players ability to win?

no thanks,

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]

T'Laar Bok
#27 - 2013-03-16 05:01:34 UTC
NO!

Amphetimines are your friend.

http://eveboard.com/pilot/T'Laar_Bok

DSpite Culhach
#28 - 2013-03-16 05:32:00 UTC
Regardless of whether the OP idea is good or bad, you can't drop such a feature into the current system.

I would welcome mechanics that make the "shallow end of the pool" gameplay more accessible to new players - and CCP has actually made it easier to get into a lot of hulls quite recently - but the high end stuff is fairly well time balanced.

Put it this way: In a normal MMO you would have to grind for months and months in repetitive missions in order to unlock a bunch of stuff. In EVE, yes, maybe you will take longer to Tech 2 into Carriers and Black-ops and what not, but you can click a few buttons to do it, and you can do things totally unrelated to the skills you are training, and/or just take a nap.

I think I know what I prefer.

I apparently have no idea what I'm doing.

dark heartt
#29 - 2013-03-16 05:42:14 UTC
Jeremy Tebeau wrote:
A
To make myself clear, I like that the system allows you to advance without having to put large amounts of time into the game, but I simply wish to alleviate the problem of not being able to advance significantly faster and thus having to wait to play well.

If you think my idea is bad, then propose a better one. If you like the system as it is, then say so. The floor is yours.


This is where I think you don't allow for what Eve is. Eve has always been a game about the future. When you start you need to realise that you are playing for the long term, not immediately. I have been playing since 2009 and by some players still considered a newbie, however it took me all of 10 minutes to realise that I couldn't just come in here and expect to be equal to everyone immediately.

Eve is about time. Everything in this game takes time. It takes time to train skills. It takes time to produce ships and modules. It takes time to research that blueprint. It takes time to set up structures.

However your argument that skills = playing well is so flawed. I've seen 2 day old players killing players who have been around for years. Skills are how you fit better items, not how you fit ships. A player with 2 months training can fly frigates as good as someone who has been playing since 2003.

This thread keeps re-appearing every so often, and it's always responded to in the same way. Essentially what you are asking for is to buy power (something all players should not want, and CCP have said they don't want to ever do), to get into ships that you shouldn't be flying. Just in case you are new and not an alt, the last time players found out that CCP had lost their way and were going to try and sell power (by selling better guns and ammo for real money), there were riots in Jita.

There is nothing wrong with the skill training system as it is, but people need to learn to patient with Eve, as instant gratification rarely happens and when it does, it's so few and far between that your chances of it happening to you are basically zero.

If you are dying a lot in PVP, then you need to look at the way your ship is fitted, and how you fight. If you are worried about making money via industry then start small and work up to the big stuff. Again its about being patient.
Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2013-03-16 05:46:28 UTC
Paging Malcanis - your law is required in this thread.

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#31 - 2013-03-16 05:51:50 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Buying Skill Points is not needed nor wanted. The skill system works perfectly in "closing" and sometimes negating the difference between an older player and younger player.


- All skills cap at level 5. No matter how many years you have played the game, you cannot exceed that limit. And lower level skills (ex. [Racial] Frigate) are very quick to train relative to more advanced skills.

- Only a limited number of skills affect any one ship, module, weapon system, and specialty at any given time.
Ex1: Someone you are facing has about 20 million SP, but how much of that overall SP is actually combat related? He/she could be a HUGE industrial player with limited combat skills.
Ex2: A veteran player has just trained up the skill Large Hybrid Turret to level 5. That skill in no way affects the skill Small Hybrid Turret and thus the veteran will be no better or worse than before at the frigate level.

- Getting a skill from level 4 to level 5 only adds on an extra 2% here, 5% there (exceptions apply). If you simply train up all the skills within a specialty to level 4, you will find yourself flying at about 80 to 90% of the effectiveness of a multi-year veteran with those same skills in that specific specialty at level 5.

- Getting a skill to level 5 is supposed to be a painful train. Many players (yes, even veteran ones) opt to avoid doing it and instead train up other skills to level 4 (because it's faster).

- Ships and weapons have been balanced against one another.
Ex: A battleship can potentially instapop a frigate... but the frigate can fly very fast, making it difficult for the battleship's weapons to track, especially at very close range... then again, the battleship can deploy drones to deal with the frigate... and the frigate can shoot the drones down... however the battleship might have a Large Energy Neutralizer fitted to nuke the frigate's capacitor every 24 second... in which case the frigate could use a Small Nosferatu that sucks out capacitor every 3 seconds... etc. etc.


tl;dr...
- the point of the skill system is to force you to learn the game's mechanics and nuances in cheaper equipment and ships... that way when you DO gain access to more expensive equipment and ships, you know HOW to use them properly.

- High tech equipment (ex. T2, Faction, Officer, etc) will not give a player "I WIN" abilities. It simply gives a player a linear edge at an exponentially higher cost.
Ex: A group of three T1-fit frigates that cost about 500 to 800 thousand ISK CAN kill a faction frigate worth about 50 million ISK... provided they are using the right mods in the right configuration and know what they are doing.

- more SP is not indicative of a pilot's ability. It just means that the pilot has more options in what he/she can do.

- no one ship is superior to everything in the game. Even Titans, the largest ship in the game, has its Achilles heel; smaller ships.
dark heartt
#32 - 2013-03-16 06:12:53 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:

- Only a limited number of skills affect any one ship, module, weapon system, and specialty at any given time.
Ex1: Someone you are facing has about 20 million SP, but how much of that overall SP is actually combat related? He/she could be a HUGE industrial player with limited combat skills.
Ex2: A veteran player has just trained up the skill Large Hybrid Turret to level 5. That skill in no way affects the skill Small Hybrid Turret and thus the veteran will be no better or worse than before at the frigate level.


This point is extremely valid. I have almost 30 mill sp now, and probably 4 - 5 million in frigates. That's it.
Galan Amarias
Kantian Principle
#33 - 2013-03-16 06:58:39 UTC
Adrenaline and panic lose more noob ships than skill points.

You can be competitive in the frigate range of ships within a few weeks. If you learn to fly, and fit your ships. However all the skill points and all the fittings won't mean a thing when you get those shakes.

EVE takes care of the skills, you get a boost being a noob, faster training times, and like the other poster mentioned the learning skills are gone. To put that in perspective you have the effects of about 2million sp of training to learn faster, preloaded into your head.

If you are pvping in low sec, you can not be podded unless you let them, or they have smart bombs. Get some plants, pick 1 ship to specialize in. You can have t2 frigates in less than 3 months.

tl;dr, the "problem" you have identified is not a problem, but the system as it is intended.
Varesk
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2013-03-16 07:05:45 UTC
you can have approximately 20mil sp in one years time.
Ai Shun
#35 - 2013-03-16 07:10:03 UTC
Jeremy Tebeau wrote:
I did a search and did not see anyone discussing this idea in the last few months, so I wished to bring it up (or back up if it has been proposed before) and to voice my support for such a system.


You probably didn't search Features and Ideas, did you? Agreed with others - no.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#36 - 2013-03-16 07:16:18 UTC
This idea has been discussed to death and the conclusion is always overwhelmingly "no."

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#37 - 2013-03-16 07:16:25 UTC
Thread moved to Features & Ideas Discussion.

ISD LackOfFaith

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

I do not respond to Eve Mail or anything other than the forums.

Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#38 - 2013-03-16 08:13:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Mallak Azaria
Jeremy Tebeau wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
We'd sell the skillpoints of alts that we don't use anymore to our mains. There are so many ways we'd abuse this. The current system isn't flawed, it's just very misunderstood. You can still be very useful on day 1 & anyone that tells you otherwise is bad at this game (and has probably never left highsec).


You misread me, I am not saying that we should be able to sell our character's skill points, but that we should be able to buy skill point boosters from CCP. Thus your exploit is nonexistant.


That is just one instance of abuse that you've looked at. Sitting at 88 billion in liquid isk, I'm considered poor by most peoples standard. With your idea & could get a 1 day old character all the skills to sit in a shiny new titan, then sell some assets & buy him that titan. Your idea is bad because it would give older players the advantage & make the new players realise that they didn't need such a boost after all. Find yourself a group of people to play with that won't make you feel useless because of your low SP.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#39 - 2013-03-16 08:19:27 UTC
Jeremy Tebeau wrote:
To make myself clear, I like that the system allows you to advance without having to put large amounts of time into the game, but I simply wish to alleviate the problem of not being able to advance significantly faster and thus having to wait to play well.

If you think my idea is bad, then propose a better one. If you like the system as it is, then say so. The floor is yours.


EVE is not the game for you if you're unwilling to put time & effort in to getting somewhere. The current system works quite well as it puts a time limit on ship progression for newer players which gives them time to learn their chosen ships before moving on to something bigger & more expensive.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Jeremy Tebeau
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2013-03-16 08:44:53 UTC
Refer to edited original post.
Previous page123Next page