Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I haven't ever flown them, but a quick look got me the following Mack fit. (I'm sure there are better fits)
http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/63718-Over-46k-EHP-Mackinaw.html

Then there is the Skiff, which happens to be the best tanker, although not the best yield. If someone scans you and finds you easy to gank and ISK viable, you will be ganked.

The point is, there are options and most likely ones better than I just posted. You can't blame CCP for being shot, when you didn't wear the right body armour in a gun fight.

with all due respect mag's, if you're fitting a mack like that you may as well use a retriever.

Yeah, I saw that too and don't know about the payout for a bounty. I wondered about that myself, but don't have any way to check. Would be interesting.

a retriever will mine roughly 25% more with a max yield fit, and will only cost you 30m rather than 200m when it gets popped, also who'd bother popping you if you're next to an equally easy to kill target worth 200m?
isk tanking is a viable method of tanking, i do it myself.


as far as i understand it, it's 20% of total value upon destruction. which is ~180m looking at that kill, split 24 ways. just over 7m per pilot.

High sec mining fits:

Skiff
Strip Miner 1
Medium Shield Extender II
Medium Shield Extender II
EM Resistance Amp II
Thermal Resistance Amp II
Invurnability Field II
MLU II
MLU II
Shield Extender Rig I
Shield Extender Rig I
Shield Extender Rig I

EHP: 78k
If you want to fit a tech II strip miner you need a 1% powergrid implant. You can swap to ice mining without any tank changes. With an orca with level 5 boosts and shield harmonizing gang link2 you're sporting 96k ehp (assuming mining foreman mindlink).

Procurer
Strip Miner (1 or 2, doesn't matter)
Medium Shield Extender II
Thermal Hardener II
EM Hardener II
Invurnability Field II
MLU II
MLU II
Shield Extender Rig I
Shield Extender Rig I
Shield Extender Rig I

I think the EHP on this ~58k, and it can be fit for ice minig without any changes. Without the rigs it's ~44k EHP but you cut 35-40% off the hull cost.
If you want to isk tank even more efficiently then use the procurer fit except use tech 1 meto 0 mods and no rigs. I can't remember the number but I think it was around 39k EHP, but the ship costs ~10.5-11 mil.

If gankers are hitting your wallet hard you have no one but yourself to blame. It's also worth noting that all these fits are max yield and don't use a Damage Control, if you slap a DC/DCII where appropriate you'll be even beefier.

Problems I foresee with this thread:

A.) Highsec is NOT meant to be completely safe.... The purpose of highsec is to provide an ingame area where the dangers to your stuff is reduced, NOT eliminated. In highsec, you get to fear scammers, AWOXers, Suicide Gankers, Wardecs, and Thieves. CCP has said it before, if they wanted to stop suicide ganking in highsec, they'd simply disable the ability to illegally shoot others. CCP has stated they do NOT want to do such a thing!!!!

B.) You have a choice on what ship to fly, and how to fit it. The Hulk gives the best yield, but it has by far the weakest tank of all exhumers. You could easily fly a Mac or skiff instead, to get good yield AND a solid tank... or you could max your yield and be subjected to suicide ganking!

C.) That Orca pilot was a weird suicide gank. People generally don't use t2 ships when suicide ganking (retribution, enyo, taranis), so there was something "special" about this attack. It wasn't pre-planned!!!! Furthermore, it is very failfit.... it's rigs make no sense, it only has 85k EHP, it has a MSE instead of an IF, and it has a blingy 10mn MWD on it. That ships should have been put out of it's misery!

D.) You need to realize this is an MMO. And unlike other MMO's, it is meant to be a dystopic universe, where players eat each other and best one another in underhanded, twisted manners. There is NO safe place in EvE, because the biggest threat to you is, and always will be, other players. There are MANY ways you can mitigate the risks they impose, and any changes you ask for must be about giving you a choice rather than removing theirs.

With this in mind... here is a response on your ideas:
1.) Insurance is NOT paid to ships destroyed by Concord.

2.) I see no reason to limit killmails... its still player on player action!

3-6.) The killright system is AMAZINGLY improved over the joke it once was... Use it wisely, and it will benefit you... use it poorly, and works about as well as thwarting a suicide attack with a civilian shield booster!!
-- A shuttle should count... if you are dumb enough to make it available to everyone for free... they should be able to shed it with any ship in the game...
-- I'm ok with removing notifications about the status of a killright...
-- The killright activation scheme is perfect... it doesnt' need to be changed!

Ok. I've done a rudimentary analysis of the Hulk kills over the past week or so and was I naive in thinking people fit their Hulks well. Approximately 70% of them were very poorly fit. No rigs or no DCU or no shield modules of ANY kind in mid slots or some combination of all the above. My favorite was 3 civilian shield boosters and nothing else protective. The other 30%, however, were fairly well fit and still went down. Most were in 0.5 systems, although a few were lost in nullsec.

So, it appears that "well fit" Hulks still will not survive a ganking in lower highsec systems by even a couple of destroyers.

I still feel that I ought be to able to use a Hulk in highsec and not have it be ganked every other day and believe the current kill rights system, while better, has some holes in it.

There should be more of balance between the gankees and the gankers. There was definitely a good move in the right directly, but obviously still needs some improvement.

In reality suicide gankers are necessary for a thriving industry. In order for industrialists to make money ships must be destroyed, but that can't just be combat ships as mining ships will continue to out mine combat ships being destroyed. So to fix this mining ships need to be destroyed also and the best way to do this is suicide ganking.

Can't agree with you here. As someone else pointed out, not many miners are using the kill rights system. Why? The gankers can tell who is invoking the kill right. What's to prevent the same gankers from coming back and ganking you again? Nothing. In fact, nothing new happens except perhaps an extra day or two is effectively added to the kill right. You say, well get into a better tanked ship! Well, as someone has already pointed out, that just changes the number required to gank! The only thing that really does is afford less likelihood of getting ganked during non-peak hours.

If the killmail notification message you received did not indicate who invoked it and did not indicate who could take advantage of it, THAT would be a different ball game.

Also, you said, "if you are dumb enough to make it available to everyone for free", in a sense you are saying the public option to kill rights is useless. The only thing that may make it worthwhile is if there is a bounty on someone, and with this new 90 day option for new alt accounts, there's suddenly a lot of 3 or 4 day old characters out there ganking that have no bounties.

you did your percentage change the wrong way around.
the retriever mines 13% better than a mackinaw. and the mackinaw mines 11% less than the retriever.