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Mynnna for CSM8

First post
Author
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#101 - 2013-03-15 13:57:12 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
and now that CCP is struggling to find new players


Says who?

After a spaceships-focused, PvP-centric expansion, EVE has the highest subs ever, and the highest sustained PCUs. Incursions didn't save EVE; the T1 frigate/cruiser rebalance did.



That question belongs to fuzzy logic. As CCP doesn't says anything on the issue, we're left to look at what they do. What?

And they are being increasingly aggressive in obtaining subscriptions, not customers. They've gone as far as offering Power of 2 to new players right after they subscribe.

Think of it, does it look like the kind of thing a company enjoying a healthy growth would do?


yes, of course it does. What could be unhealthier than a business which is so complacent and poorly led that it doesn't try and maximise the number of customers.

The point is that there isn't any evidence, circumstantial or otherwise, that deprecating PvP and making more hi-sec PvE increases the number of players. There is only a widespread assumption.

On the other hand the evidence for spaceships, player interaction and PvP is there to see: when CCP focus on those things, subscriptions rise rapidly and the PCU is high. When they don't, subs flatten and the PCU goes into the toilet.


Nobody is talking about deprecating PvP. Back to the example I've been using here, how would player-built NPC structures deprecate PvP?

As for growth, I would like to have the means and time to make a simple analysis of PCU data, specifically interannual growth and monthly trends, pre- and post-Incarna, to see how is Tranquility growing with all the post-Incarna boosting and compare that to the pre-Incarna, non boosted growth. This way we would be able to check with some actual data wether there is something missing from EVE growth.
mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#102 - 2013-03-15 14:00:44 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:


Nobody is talking about deprecating PvP. Back to the example I've been using here, how would player-built NPC structures deprecate PvP?

If focused on in lieu of other things. But the new development angle they're doing is going to be delivering several things per expansion for all sorts of players, so we'll see how it comes out.

Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
As for growth, I would like to have the means and time to make a simple analysis of PCU data, specifically interannual growth and monthly trends, pre- and post-Incarna, to see how is Tranquility growing with all the post-Incarna boosting and compare that to the pre-Incarna, non boosted growth. This way we would be able to check with some actual data wether there is something missing from EVE growth.


What do you mean by "post-Incarna boosting" and "non boosted growth"?

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal

Indahmawar Fazmarai
#103 - 2013-03-15 14:12:05 UTC
mynnna wrote:
Reward is framed in isk terms because historically, that's always been how it's been applicable. A core aspect of the game is that you can't (or shouldn't, anyway) be able to impact the game, its economy, other players, etc without the rest of the game being able to have some impact in return, ideally in a way proportional to the magnitude of your impact. So, the idea of risk:reward can be expanded and thought of as "How does this activity affect my ability to impact the game and other players."

To put that in context of your "NPC structures" idea, the reward is a form of immortality in that you get your name on the list of builders. However, this structure is functionally identical to the gate that it replaced and does not impact the game or economy in any way, so there wouldn't really have to be any risk associated with it. Well, aside from the normal risks already present in highsec... overload your construction supply ship at your own risk. Blink

On the other hand if your "NPC structures" were actually POS in a post-modular revamp EVE and they let you build more efficiently, research faster, and get better refines than normal stations, then I don't care how much of a reward the sense of achievement of building one is, there's also a definitive advantage over other players - a major economic impact. And, thus, they'd have to have an associated risk... namely, the risk that someone will wardec you and blow your factory POS out of space.


So, the reason why CCP would not implement player-built NPC structures is...?

As for POSes, what about "homestead" POSes, with purely cosmethic functions not different than a NPC station without services but fully customizable? Just an undestructable place to keep your ships and stuff and enjoy the vistas? (For a price, failing which, it would be "stored" and removed from grid, same as if the player unsubbed, because of impact the game and etc etera)

What does CCP oppose? Players getting bacon for free, or players being free from becoming somebody else's bacon?
mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#104 - 2013-03-15 14:15:35 UTC
I didn't say there would necessarily be any reason for them to oppose that sort of thing, did I?

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal

Indahmawar Fazmarai
#105 - 2013-03-15 14:16:57 UTC
mynnna wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:


Nobody is talking about deprecating PvP. Back to the example I've been using here, how would player-built NPC structures deprecate PvP?

If focused on in lieu of other things. But the new development angle they're doing is going to be delivering several things per expansion for all sorts of players, so we'll see how it comes out.

Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
As for growth, I would like to have the means and time to make a simple analysis of PCU data, specifically interannual growth and monthly trends, pre- and post-Incarna, to see how is Tranquility growing with all the post-Incarna boosting and compare that to the pre-Incarna, non boosted growth. This way we would be able to check with some actual data wether there is something missing from EVE growth.


What do you mean by "post-Incarna boosting" and "non boosted growth"?


I am talking about the ongoing marketing efforts i explained, which didn't existed before Incarna. These efforts surely have an impact in the current PCU, but PCU was steadily growing before Incarna without these efforts.

Indahmawar Fazmarai
#106 - 2013-03-15 14:21:14 UTC
mynnna wrote:
I didn't say there would necessarily be any reason for them to oppose that sort of thing, did I?


So, would they implement it if it proved cost effective? You stated they wouldn't, and i think the same...
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#107 - 2013-03-15 14:22:45 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:


As for POSes, what about "homestead" POSes, with purely cosmethic functions not different than a NPC station without services but fully customizable? Just an undestructable place to keep your ships and stuff and enjoy the vistas? (For a price, failing which, it would be "stored" and removed from grid, same as if the player unsubbed, because of impact the game and etc etera)


If these were indestructable, they'd utterly change 0.0

Indestructable staging points would render sov 0.0 largely useless for non-combat activity. It would be almost as radical a change as allowing players a means to switch off CONCORD in a hi-sec system.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#108 - 2013-03-15 15:08:41 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
mynnna wrote:
I didn't say there would necessarily be any reason for them to oppose that sort of thing, did I?


So, would they implement it if it proved cost effective? You stated they wouldn't, and i think the same...


I did not state whether they would or would not implement any such thing. I commented on the risk/reward of such structures as you originally described them.

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal

Indahmawar Fazmarai
#109 - 2013-03-15 20:27:17 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:


As for POSes, what about "homestead" POSes, with purely cosmethic functions not different than a NPC station without services but fully customizable? Just an undestructable place to keep your ships and stuff and enjoy the vistas? (For a price, failing which, it would be "stored" and removed from grid, same as if the player unsubbed, because of impact the game and etc etera)


If these were indestructable, they'd utterly change 0.0

Indestructable staging points would render sov 0.0 largely useless for non-combat activity. It would be almost as radical a change as allowing players a means to switch off CONCORD in a hi-sec system.


Two words: Hisec only.
KwarK uK
The Hatchery
SL0W CHILDREN AT PLAY
#110 - 2013-03-15 21:48:44 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:


As for POSes, what about "homestead" POSes, with purely cosmethic functions not different than a NPC station without services but fully customizable? Just an undestructable place to keep your ships and stuff and enjoy the vistas? (For a price, failing which, it would be "stored" and removed from grid, same as if the player unsubbed, because of impact the game and etc etera)


If these were indestructable, they'd utterly change 0.0

Indestructable staging points would render sov 0.0 largely useless for non-combat activity. It would be almost as radical a change as allowing players a means to switch off CONCORD in a hi-sec system.


Two words: Hisec only.

Your proposition is that there should be some kind of indestructable place in highsec where you can dock, store ships and items and refit your ships? I agree, that is something highsec needs. In fact, I'd see it expanded across lowsec and even areas of non sov null.

You should vote for KwarK for a lowsec presence on CSM8. It's a good idea. I'd do it! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=213851

Indahmawar Fazmarai
#111 - 2013-03-15 23:21:46 UTC
KwarK uK wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:


As for POSes, what about "homestead" POSes, with purely cosmethic functions not different than a NPC station without services but fully customizable? Just an undestructable place to keep your ships and stuff and enjoy the vistas? (For a price, failing which, it would be "stored" and removed from grid, same as if the player unsubbed, because of impact the game and etc etera)


If these were indestructable, they'd utterly change 0.0

Indestructable staging points would render sov 0.0 largely useless for non-combat activity. It would be almost as radical a change as allowing players a means to switch off CONCORD in a hi-sec system.


Two words: Hisec only.

Your proposition is that there should be some kind of indestructable place in highsec where you can dock, store ships and items and refit your ships? I agree, that is something highsec needs. In fact, I'd see it expanded across lowsec and even areas of non sov null.


I am not proposing anything. I am just discussing wether CCP would or would not add content that was beyond the usual risk/reward mechanics, as a part of a more general discussion on why the lack of hiseccers leads to wrong decissions concerning hisec even when it's not being called to nerf it.

Content that did not affected other players could be free from being affected by other players and thus, as mynna pointed, it could be left outside of the usual risk/reward schemes, which are limited to blowing spaceships.

I'm not even calling to develop that content itself, as CCP shelved WiS and that was the brightest venue to achieve that kind of content; but provided how CCP is aiming at delivering a liltle of everything with further expansions, "exotic" content not direclty related to exploding ships could be developed in small steps, even in FiS.

Would be sweet that such "exotic" content was hisec, suit for being used alone, and could be enjoyed in small but cumulative amounts of time. Hisec solo casual friendly. If it required long dedication and advanced skills, and provided a continued reward through discrete steps, it would also be endgame.
EvilweaselFinance
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#112 - 2013-03-16 00:32:09 UTC
what was that whooshing sound i just heard over my head
mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#113 - 2013-03-20 06:29:21 UTC
I seem to have fallen off the first page of the forum and, while I am content to merely wait for questions to come, I'm so much easier to find for questioning if I stay on the front page. Cool

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal

Speedkermit Damo
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#114 - 2013-03-20 18:03:45 UTC
KwarK uK wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:


As for POSes, what about "homestead" POSes, with purely cosmethic functions not different than a NPC station without services but fully customizable? Just an undestructable place to keep your ships and stuff and enjoy the vistas? (For a price, failing which, it would be "stored" and removed from grid, same as if the player unsubbed, because of impact the game and etc etera)


If these were indestructable, they'd utterly change 0.0

Indestructable staging points would render sov 0.0 largely useless for non-combat activity. It would be almost as radical a change as allowing players a means to switch off CONCORD in a hi-sec system.


Two words: Hisec only.

Your proposition is that there should be some kind of indestructable place in highsec where you can dock, store ships and items and refit your ships? I agree, that is something highsec needs. In fact, I'd see it expanded across lowsec and even areas of non sov null.


What like.... Space stations?

You see those square symbols on your Overview?

Protect me from knowing what I don't need to know. Protect me from even knowing that there are things to know that I don't know. Protect me from knowing that I decided not to know about the things that I decided not to know about. Amen.

mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#115 - 2013-03-20 18:04:36 UTC
EvilweaselFinance wrote:
what was that whooshing sound i just heard over my head


I'd empty quote this because it's totally appropriate, but that's really not my style.

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal

Trebor Daehdoow
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#116 - 2013-03-21 11:19:25 UTC
mynnna wrote:
I seem to have fallen off the first page of the forum and, while I am content to merely wait for questions to come, I'm so much easier to find for questioning if I stay on the front page. Cool

I for one would like to salute you for your unceasing efforts to improve the level of discourse in Jita Park.

Private Citizen • CSM in recovery

Prince Kobol
#117 - 2013-03-21 11:53:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Prince Kobol
mynnna wrote:
I seem to have fallen off the first page of the forum and, while I am content to merely wait for questions to come, I'm so much easier to find for questioning if I stay on the front page. Cool


Yet is there any need?

Lets be honest here you are the official Goonswarm Candidate so you are guaranteed a place of the CSM and as for being chairman, well that is just a title, it doesn't give you any extra powers, hell just look at CM7, Seleene has been awol for most of it.

Also even you own CEO has stated that anything said on these forums is a waste of time and makes damn near no difference so why bother?

Just to add, I am not having a go or complaining, I have no issues with block voting, its how politics work and what Goonswarm has shown more then others is that they have a great ability to get organised when the need arises and I congratulate them on that
Speedkermit Damo
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#118 - 2013-03-21 12:19:22 UTC
Hrllo Myanna,

Despite your alliance, I think you would be a good CSM. Unlike your leader, you come across as a mature adult. I would like to ask you about a few of the hot topics affecting Null-sec at the moment.

1, Tech ISK-fountains, and bottom up allance income.

2, Supercapital proliferation - (linked to Tech ISK-fountains) see above.

3, Force projection - does it need nerfing?

4, Ratting, PVE and ways CCP could make it less mindnumbingly boring.

5, How would you Myanna, as CSM. push, cajole CCP to just fecking get on with it and fix stuff.

6, Getting new blood (corps, alliances) into Null-sec.

Protect me from knowing what I don't need to know. Protect me from even knowing that there are things to know that I don't know. Protect me from knowing that I decided not to know about the things that I decided not to know about. Amen.

Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
Shadow Cartel
#119 - 2013-03-21 13:01:01 UTC
What do u think about the state the lowsec is in atm, and do u think that it needs any revitalization, if yes, what?
And pls dont equalize FW as whole lowsec.

BALEX, bringing piracy on a whole new level.

mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#120 - 2013-03-21 16:04:03 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Yet is there any need?

Lets be honest here you are the official Goonswarm Candidate so you are guaranteed a place of the CSM and as for being chairman, well that is just a title, it doesn't give you any extra powers, hell just look at CM7, Seleene has been awol for most of it.

Also even you own CEO has stated that anything said on these forums is a waste of time and makes damn near no difference so why bother?

Just to add, I am not having a go or complaining, I have no issues with block voting, its how politics work and what Goonswarm has shown more then others is that they have a great ability to get organised when the need arises and I congratulate them on that


To cut through what you're saying, the fact that I have a bloc at my back means I don't need to pander here for votes. That doesn't mean I am not actually interested letting people ask me questions or in hearing from people, quite the opposite in fact... while I have a few "good ideas" if I do say so myself, having people ask questions or pitch their own ideas leads to new, interesting areas for both sides. I'd never have thought much about this (unless or until it came up somewhere else) if someone here hadn't asked me, for example.

Speedkermit Damo wrote:
Hrllo Myanna,

Despite your alliance, I think you would be a good CSM. Unlike your leader, you come across as a mature adult. I would like to ask you about a few of the hot topics affecting Null-sec at the moment.

1, Tech ISK-fountains, and bottom up allance income.

2, Supercapital proliferation - (linked to Tech ISK-fountains) see above.

3, Force projection - does it need nerfing?

4, Ratting, PVE and ways CCP could make it less mindnumbingly boring.

5, How would you Myanna, as CSM. push, cajole CCP to just fecking get on with it and fix stuff.

6, Getting new blood (corps, alliances) into Null-sec.


I'll pass over the shots at my alliance and leader for now. ;)

To your first question, I've written a few[url] [url=http://themittani.com/features/bottoms-part-two-sovereignty]words about the subject, which you can summarize as "I'm generally for it." On the topic of moon mining in particular, it generally needs to change, but it's one point I'm less certain on when it comes to "how". I've heard just as many good arguments from some sources you wouldn't expect for leaving moons as a top down resource and merely doing a better job of balancing them (which is possible) as I have nuking them and turning them into bottom up resources.

Supercap proliferation is a tricky one since we don't really have numbers anymore on it. The last time we did have numbers was from CCP Diagoras, over a year ago. They showed that in the wake of the supercarrier nerf, the rate at which they were being built dropped by nearly 80%. It feels safe to assume that titans took a similar plunge in the wake of their nerf. So, it's up in the air as to whether they're being built too fast. However, they're definitely not dying fast enough, so the way forward is to encourage people to use them in situations where loss is likely, and then probably add more ways to ensure loss, as well. Unfortunately, you can't do much about the piles of them that already exist. I mean, you can, but I doubt CCP would actually start outright deleting them from accounts... Blink

On force projection... probably. I'm not sure the best way. There are issues with every suggestion to do it that I've seen so far, which suggests to me that there is not a simple solution.

As to boring PvE... something is always going to be boring if you do enough of it, unfortunately. What can be done is to make it more interesting and engaging, I think. Amusingly enough, the current "thing" for ratting in Guristas and Fountain space partially fits the bill - for the unaware, it involves using a Naga or Talos to run Forsaken Hubs. They're lightly tanked, but a pilot paying attention can combine the raw damage output with the ship's mobility to stay alive, you just have to be paying a bit more attention. Anyway, it's clear to me in this regard that CCP sees "unifying PvP and PvE" as an endgame of sorts for this goal, and it might be a fine solution. If you had to bring a properly fitted PvP ship to rat and every encounter was a little different because the AI kept doing different things, it'd keep things interesting. Not even the Sleeper AI is really up to that level yet, though.

Lesse, what's next... "just fecking fix everything." If only it were that easy... I think they have an interest in "fix everything", it's just not something you can do all at once. So this should be no cajoling necessary. I do fully plan to point out any issues in their fixes though. As amusing as it was, I'd rather not see another system like FW circa Inferno go live. Spending a large portion of another expansion on FW kinda sucked.

And finally, new blood. Getting new blood out, at least semi-independently, there is a combo of several factors. There needs to be space for them, which means current space holders need to hold less (see bottoms up articles I linked above) and they need to have income sources that they can leverage regardless of their size (see those same articles). CCP's implementation of DUST planetary conquest has some interesting concepts that could apply to EVE sov, but I haven't thought about it enough to put any ideas on paper yet.

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal