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New dev blog: Ship-troduction: The Gallente Talos

First post First post
Author
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#181 - 2011-10-28 19:40:35 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
I HAVE TO SAY THAT I AM EXTREAMLY DISAPOINTED WIHT CCP CHOICE TO DO A WEBBER VELOCITY BONUS INSTEAD OF A FALL OFF BONUS...

UNFORTUANTLY CCP IS TAKING THE EASY ROUTE AND IF THIS IS A SIGN OF THE HYBRID BOOST THEN ALOT OF GALLENTE SHIPS WILL LOOSE A BONUS WHEN NOT USING BLASTERS...

A FALL OFF BONUS WOULD ATLEAST BE USEFULL TO BOTH BLASTERS AND RAILS...

Wouldn't that just make it a slower tornado with a smaller engagement window?
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#182 - 2011-10-28 19:53:16 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
I HAVE TO SAY THAT I AM EXTREAMLY DISAPOINTED WIHT CCP CHOICE TO DO A WEBBER VELOCITY BONUS INSTEAD OF A FALL OFF BONUS...

UNFORTUANTLY CCP IS TAKING THE EASY ROUTE AND IF THIS IS A SIGN OF THE HYBRID BOOST THEN ALOT OF GALLENTE SHIPS WILL LOOSE A BONUS WHEN NOT USING BLASTERS...

A FALL OFF BONUS WOULD ATLEAST BE USEFULL TO BOTH BLASTERS AND RAILS...

Wouldn't that just make it a slower tornado with a smaller engagement window?



true enough... plus rails have low falloff so an increase to it might have been presumptious of me...

a bonus i have been complemplating is a reduction in the mass addition of propulsion mods... which would make gal ships fitted with mwd or ab faster and more agile...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#183 - 2011-10-28 20:05:35 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:

true enough... plus rails have low falloff so an increase to it might have been presumptious of me...

a bonus i have been complemplating is a reduction in the mass addition of propulsion mods... which would make gal ships fitted with mwd or ab faster and more agile...

CCP seems to be pushing Gallente further into 2 opposite niche fighting styles, super long range or 0 range. that being the case there are not alot of weapon bonuses that will apply well to both. Your suggestion of an agility affecting bonus seems much more useful to the intended nature of the ship. I'd gladly go with that.
Phantomania
Lonely Trek
#184 - 2011-10-28 20:08:45 UTC
Crazy KSK wrote:
Phantomania wrote:
Just to remind all, CCP Devs have quite clearly stated that the stats that are floating around are from Sisi for ongoing testing and will most likely not be the stats on finished models.

So no need to get upset..........yet! Twisted


could you please link some of those clear statements ?
all ive seen so far is a confirmation that it is indeed official data but not final

also its not sisi its chaos they took that from , a non public testing server





"...Why..so..Serious..?..." Roll
Ranzabar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#185 - 2011-10-28 23:36:26 UTC
See, now that's what we're talking about.

Abide

Pr1ncess Alia
Doomheim
#186 - 2011-10-29 01:31:37 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:

true enough... plus rails have low falloff so an increase to it might have been presumptious of me...

a bonus i have been complemplating is a reduction in the mass addition of propulsion mods... which would make gal ships fitted with mwd or ab faster and more agile...

CCP seems to be pushing Gallente further into 2 opposite niche fighting styles, super long range or 0 range. that being the case there are not alot of weapon bonuses that will apply well to both. Your suggestion of an agility affecting bonus seems much more useful to the intended nature of the ship. I'd gladly go with that.


I get the feeling most Gallente pilots just wish they were Minmatar.

My suggestion, do what everyone else does and cross train if you don't like the role Gal ships fill.

The webber bonus is going to be devastating and I'm looking forward to it. It will assist in breaking away from losing fights to ships that could otherwise keep you pinned down and conversely it will keep ships dying to you under your thumb where they otherwise might have escaped.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#187 - 2011-10-29 01:54:58 UTC
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:

true enough... plus rails have low falloff so an increase to it might have been presumptious of me...

a bonus i have been complemplating is a reduction in the mass addition of propulsion mods... which would make gal ships fitted with mwd or ab faster and more agile...

CCP seems to be pushing Gallente further into 2 opposite niche fighting styles, super long range or 0 range. that being the case there are not alot of weapon bonuses that will apply well to both. Your suggestion of an agility affecting bonus seems much more useful to the intended nature of the ship. I'd gladly go with that.


I get the feeling most Gallente pilots just wish they were Minmatar.

My suggestion, do what everyone else does and cross train if you don't like the role Gal ships fill.

The webber bonus is going to be devastating and I'm looking forward to it. It will assist in breaking away from losing fights to ships that could otherwise keep you pinned down and conversely it will keep ships dying to you under your thumb where they otherwise might have escaped.

There really isn't much reason to wish you were flying Gallente. The versatility of energy and projectile weapons in comparison to hybrids, combined with the drawbacks of the platforms makes sure that there are very few scenarios in which thees truly niche weapons systems can shine, and even then the tide can easily turn against you. What has been seen of the blaster buff may make them deadly enough to be actually desired in their effective combat window, but it won't make them more desirable outside those isolated conditions.
Pr1ncess Alia
Doomheim
#188 - 2011-10-29 02:28:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Pr1ncess Alia
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
There really isn't much reason to wish you were flying Gallente. The versatility of energy and projectile weapons in comparison to hybrids, combined with the drawbacks of the platforms makes sure that there are very few scenarios in which thees truly niche weapons systems can shine, and even then the tide can easily turn against you. What has been seen of the blaster buff may make them deadly enough to be actually desired in their effective combat window, but it won't make them more desirable outside those isolated conditions.


Your speaking from opinion. There is a role. Like I said, if you don't appreciate the role which you so obviously don't then train up another ship.

What is your proposed alternative? Making all the turrets the same? HOW FUN! Roll
I don't want to play Vanilla Online and I don't think anyone else who understands this game does either.

Fly what ships fit the combat roles you enjoy but don't cry that gallente can't do what amarr or caldari or minnie can do. Each have their niche and each niche has a counter.

Even without the hybrid changes coming, I know plenty of pilots that absolutely pwn with blasters and non-frig rails are the only weap sys that absolutely require a boost. We are getting a welcome boost to both.

You complain that they are crap 'outside of those isolated conditions' as if 'absolutely pwning and raping faces' inside of those isolated conditions should be dismissed.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#189 - 2011-10-29 02:53:38 UTC
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
There really isn't much reason to wish you were flying Gallente. The versatility of energy and projectile weapons in comparison to hybrids, combined with the drawbacks of the platforms makes sure that there are very few scenarios in which thees truly niche weapons systems can shine, and even then the tide can easily turn against you. What has been seen of the blaster buff may make them deadly enough to be actually desired in their effective combat window, but it won't make them more desirable outside those isolated conditions.


Your speaking from opinion. There is a role. Like I said, if you don't appreciate the role which you so obviously don't then train up another ship.

I said there was a role as well, just one that you are less likely to be in given the comparative limitations. Also I'll thank you not to make any further assumptions about my preferred style of play.

Pr1ncess Alia wrote:
What is your proposed alternative? Making all the turrets the same? HOW FUN! Roll
I don't want to play Vanilla Online and I don't think anyone else who understands this game does either.

I'd rather the other weapons be more niche in one way or another to give more of a rock paper scissors feel. That way blasters can remain as is but still be more desirable because the chances of them working to your advantage increases. That way the weapons become MORE distinct, not less.

Pr1ncess Alia wrote:
Fly what ships fit the combat roles you enjoy but don't cry that gallente can't do what amarr or caldari or minnie can do. Each have their niche and each niche has a counter.

The niche with blasters is range. Both of the other turreted weapons systems have greater engagement envelopes. This is a fact. It's also a fact that the other weapons systems are not terribly weak inside the blaster engagement range. This has nothing to do with preference.

Pr1ncess Alia wrote:
Even without the hybrid changes coming, I know plenty of pilots that absolutely pwn with blasters and non-frig rails are the only weap sys that absolutely require a boost. We are getting a welcome boost to both.

You complain that they are crap 'outside of those isolated conditions' as if 'absolutely pwning and raping faces' inside of those isolated conditions should be dismissed.

Blaster changes as seen so far make them better within their window. They do not expand it. And lets be clear about something: I do believe that blasters need to be a bit better in their niche to be more generally worthwhile, but I never said they were "crap." Infact I stated that there were cases where the shine, or to be more clear, where they are the weapon of choice. Those are just fewer, or maybe less likely is more appropriate, than the other weapons systems.
bloomeh
Stormy Riders
#190 - 2011-10-29 03:01:39 UTC
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:


Your speaking from opinion. There is a role. Like I said, if you don't appreciate the role which you so obviously don't then train up another ship.

What is your proposed alternative? Making all the turrets the same? HOW FUN! Roll
I don't want to play Vanilla Online and I don't think anyone else who understands this game does either.

Fly what ships fit the combat roles you enjoy but don't cry that gallente can't do what amarr or caldari or minnie can do. Each have their niche and each niche has a counter.

Even without the hybrid changes coming, I know plenty of pilots that absolutely pwn with blasters and non-frig rails are the only weap sys that absolutely require a boost. We are getting a welcome boost to both.

You complain that they are crap 'outside of those isolated conditions' as if 'absolutely pwning and raping faces' inside of those isolated conditions should be dismissed.


QFT
Mrchafe
Perkone
Caldari State
#191 - 2011-10-29 03:42:45 UTC
Wtb fleets of them. Can't wait
Maul555
Xen Investments
#192 - 2011-10-29 04:27:52 UTC
ooooh yes, daddy likes! Skill queue updated.
Venkul Mul
Vikramaditya
#193 - 2011-10-29 08:38:53 UTC
Kalot Sakaar wrote:
Daedalus Arcova wrote:
Dare Devel wrote:
Nova Fox wrote:
You do realize that all baster ships are a bit more agile and less massive now right?
And that blaster range has been addressed.

And secondly both drawings of are of the same ship, I dont see why you're comparing oranges to oranges.


Can anyone confirm this please?



Nova Fox is wrong, wrong, wrong.

Blaster boats are getting their speed boosted, their agility nerfed (bigger number = less agile).

Blasters themselves are getting a tracking boost (it's either 20% or 30%). Railguns are getting 10% better volley damage. Most hybrid turrets are getting reduced pg and cpu need, and they're all getting a reduction to capacitor use.

In other words, Gallente hybrid platforms are still underpowered in every combat scenario, except for that tiny niche which only exists in fantasy.

(And no, ganks and docking games are not 'combat')


CCP Please tell me these stats are all wrong because this is depressing. The tracking bonus is long overdue but no increase to blaster range? Really? Less agile than the armored pigs already are? Let me see, warp in, even at zero on a fast moving target which is hard to achieve, and then by the time you lock and slowly accelerate the enemy is out of scram/web/gun range. This sucks. Plus when its time to GTFO since blaster boats can't fight aligned well due to range of guns, good luck getting out with a slow align time with this worse agility. Plus in orbit the increase in speed will be negated by the inability to hold the orbit due to worse agility.


So essentially the blasterboat that is being enhanced is the Ferox'?
/Facepalm
Mag's
Azn Empire
#194 - 2011-10-29 08:40:13 UTC
Well I looked and thought, 'man, that's ugly'. Each to there own I guess. P

It may of course look a lot better when completed, we'll see. Roll

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Junky Juke
Atom Heart Mothership
#195 - 2011-10-29 09:16:31 UTC
I hate the nose of this ship. Personaly, I prefer the Seraphim model. More stylish, lighter.
Tierere
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#196 - 2011-10-29 10:16:33 UTC
There not joking when they say...
"The Talos excels as an “in your face glass cannon”"
" Think of it as a smaller, more expendable Vindicator"

and with the stats as quoted

Shield HP: 2111.0
Resistances: EM/Ex/K/T 0/50/40/20
Armor HP: 2272.0
Resistances: EM/Ex/K/T 50/10/35/35
Structure HP: 2597.0 (of course, it's a Gallente ship)

Tell me those stat's aren't right, that's only half HP of the Brutix and that last's about 2 secs once it's been primaried.
There wont even be time to cycle those guns once, before coming home in your pod.

Think of it as a larger, more expensive Catalyst

Gabriel Karade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#197 - 2011-10-29 10:32:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Gabriel Karade
Fon Revedhort wrote:

So 90% webs aren't overpowered anymore. huh? What's changed?
In my personal opinion they never were, even back in the days when AB's and tracking disrupters were crappy. These days all the tools are available to get under large turret tracking, plus it never made sense that the only good blaster platforms were the absurdly expensive ones.

Not that I'm saying the Talos will be good, as it's far too early to tell - that plus 'good' for a blaster platform actually means 'rubbish' for most roles these days.

War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293

Mag's
Azn Empire
#198 - 2011-10-29 11:02:48 UTC
Junky Juke wrote:
I hate the nose of this ship.
Yea the more I look at it, the more I hate it. Lol

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Mariner6
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#199 - 2011-10-29 11:19:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Mariner6
Tierere wrote:
There not joking when they say...
"The Talos excels as an “in your face glass cannon”"
" Think of it as a smaller, more expendable Vindicator"

and with the stats as quoted

Shield HP: 2111.0
Resistances: EM/Ex/K/T 0/50/40/20
Armor HP: 2272.0
Resistances: EM/Ex/K/T 50/10/35/35
Structure HP: 2597.0 (of course, it's a Gallente ship)

Tell me those stat's aren't right, that's only half HP of the Brutix and that last's about 2 secs once it's been primaried.
There wont even be time to cycle those guns once, before coming home in your pod.

Think of it as a larger, more expensive Catalyst



That Catalyst comparison may not be too far off the mark... basically echo's many of the previous comments about the flawed concept of a paper thin, armored brawler with point blank blasters. Just wait till the Talos hits the MWD to close the distance...battleship fodder. Just doesn't make sense CCP. The Vindicator is successful because it can tank its way into the fight and once it gets there, then its finally game on. Maybe with rails this will be effective, but then your second bonus, like most Gallente ships, becomes a purely defensive tool against enemy drones and frigs perhaps. Better to just fly the Tornado and enjoy both bonuses to effect your primary target.

Well at least CCP didn't give this ship the dreaded 7.5% armor repair bonus.Ugh

Maybe if they had given a range bonus to the web that might have been better? Perhaps give the Brutix a range bonus just to warp scramblers and as a pair they could effectively counter kiter's? Probably not though, Brutix is too slow and with the potential loss of yet more agility to Gallente ships, well....

Eitherway, I guess I'm excited about the new stuff but I'm really hoping there will be more thought put into this and would like to see some CCP thoughts on this thread.

CCP will hopefully come out with a DEV Blog about their plans for Hybrids to help remove some of the speculation too. But kind of scary that there is no indication of improvement to range, unless that has been captured via an ammo improvement. I just think CCP needs to fix more than Hybrids but look holistically at how they should complement the ships they are on. The fact that they are comparing a paper thin brawler and a Vindicator just because it has a web bonus worries me that they just don't get it...
VaL Iscariot
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#200 - 2011-10-29 14:21:00 UTC  |  Edited by: VaL Iscariot
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
There really isn't much reason to wish you were flying Gallente. The versatility of energy and projectile weapons in comparison to hybrids, combined with the drawbacks of the platforms makes sure that there are very few scenarios in which thees truly niche weapons systems can shine, and even then the tide can easily turn against you. What has been seen of the blaster buff may make them deadly enough to be actually desired in their effective combat window, but it won't make them more desirable outside those isolated conditions.


Your speaking from opinion. There is a role. Like I said, if you don't appreciate the role which you so obviously don't then train up another ship.

What is your proposed alternative? Making all the turrets the same? HOW FUN! Roll
I don't want to play Vanilla Online and I don't think anyone else who understands this game does either.

Fly what ships fit the combat roles you enjoy but don't cry that gallente can't do what amarr or caldari or minnie can do. Each have their niche and each niche has a counter.

Even without the hybrid changes coming, I know plenty of pilots that absolutely pwn with blasters and non-frig rails are the only weap sys that absolutely require a boost. We are getting a welcome boost to both.

You complain that they are crap 'outside of those isolated conditions' as if 'absolutely pwning and raping faces' inside of those isolated conditions should be dismissed.


Ahh... the tears of those that want everyone to play just like them fuel us, do they not? <3 this post

Ya know, :lights his pipe: after living in low-sec for the better part of the last year I've come to one conclusion: Almost every fight there takes place at either point-blank range to 20km. Now, taking that lesson into consideration, on what side of the ****** pool did these 'needs a range bonus' durps rise out of? Did you ever call a Megathron or Brutix 'slow' when one came crashing down off a gate at 800 k/ms to web, scramble, bump and roflstomp your skull? Did you think while this face **** was occurring 'Gee, blaster boats sure do suck. If only they were like my hurricane they would be roxxors!' as your hull alarms went off? Have you ever heard of a shotgun before? If not, let me be the first to inform you that HYBRID BLASTERS ARE NOT AUTO-CANNONS! STOP THINKING ABOUT HOW AMAZING YOUR CANE IS AND START THINKING OUTSIDE THAT LITTLE BOX YOU'VE PUT YOURSELF INTO. YOU'RE JUST CRYING ABOUT THE WEB BONUS BECAUSE YOU KNOW YOUR KITING DAYS ARE NUMBERED AND MAY HAVE TO ADAPT TACTICS TO A CHANGING BATTLEFIELD. Charles Darwin said: "It is not the strongest that survive, nor the most intellegent, but those most capable of adaptation" Let the cycle of adaptation, begin!

Hmm, caps must of stuck.. SURE HOPE NO ONE NOTICED.
:taps his pipe out and sinks back into the Gallente fan boy side of the ****** pool: