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A Tale of Two Sandboxes
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#21 - 2013-03-14 15:51:36 UTC
Mag's wrote:
You don't have to scam friends, just be careful who you deem as friends.

There are plenty of good people playing this game and they tend to be in the most unexpected places.


Quite a few of mine are to be found on my overview...

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Whitehound
#22 - 2013-03-14 15:56:37 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Mag's wrote:
You don't have to scam friends, just be careful who you deem as friends.

There are plenty of good people playing this game and they tend to be in the most unexpected places.


Quite a few of mine are to be found on my overview...

You remind me of the "Governor" in The Walking Dead.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#23 - 2013-03-14 16:00:54 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Mag's wrote:
You don't have to scam friends, just be careful who you deem as friends.

There are plenty of good people playing this game and they tend to be in the most unexpected places.

Quite a few of mine are to be found on my overview...

You play logistics ships? Good job :)

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Kaiekalpana
Tandoori Tunafish
#24 - 2013-03-14 16:14:27 UTC
Trust is one of the reasons I don't play nearly as much as I once did. I had "friends" betray me and then expect to still call me friend, I suspect for no other reason than to keep me as a tool.

Trust broken is not trust easily regained. I used to be one of the 23.5/7 people, doing all in my power to help my Alliance, freely giving energy, materials and time to those who were my Alliance mates without a second thought. Now I log on to update my skills.

I've still got some people I trust here, problem (for CCP, not me) is that I also play other games with them. I don't need to come to the jr. high cool kids sandbox where betrayal and bullying are celebrated for me to interact with those I do consider my friends from Eve.

Thing that sucks though is that I liked what I was doing in Eve as well as where I was doing it. People and politics are bullshit though and I don't see myself participating in either again (IDK though, I can't see the future).

Why pay for my accounts and go through all of that expense if I am not doing what I like in the game?

If there is no joy left why stay?
Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#25 - 2013-03-14 16:21:33 UTC
Samroski wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Samroski wrote:

What do you mean by unabridged connectivity between hi sec systems?

I'm fairly sure he is referring to the fact that you can access virtually all of high sec without the need to actually travel into Low or Null. There are exceptions, but they are few.

With Eve the way it is, imagine a Jita-Amarr run with intervening low! Niarja (0.5) is bad enough! JFs ftw.

Don't have to imagine. Seen enough people take the shortcut through Rancer on the Jita-Hek run. You save something like 10 jumps, what could possibly go wrong?

ohai NegTen


It may or may not be a bad thing. Depends if it resulted in more developed local markets around high sec, or everyone just moving to Jita and turning the rest into a wasteland.

Science and Trade Institute [STI] is an NPC entity and as such my views do not represent those of the entity or any of its members

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=276984&p=38
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#26 - 2013-03-14 17:26:53 UTC
Diesel Phumes wrote:
The first sandbox I ever played, and the game that got me hooked on MMORPGs was Ultima Online. Before the Trammel/Felucca split, this game had the absolute best PvP and player-run community I've ever experienced in a game.

Fast forward to 3 months ago when I read about Eve and decided to give it a try. There are so many things I absolutely love about this game. But, there are also quite a few things I could really do without.

The first of those things is Hi/Low sec. These 2 areas kinda feel similar to the Trammel/Felucca split to me. I understand the need for protected trade hubs, capital cities and newbro areas. What I don't see a reason for, however, is unabridged connectivity between the hisec sysems.

The second is a subculture mentality, I seem to have been experiencing, that you should rip anyone and everyone off, including your friends, if the right opportunity presents itself. I'm game for pulling one over on some scrub you just met or some idiot who deserves it. It seems to me that because ripping off EVERYONE is encouraged, it becomes Eve's societal norm, which increases levels of complacency, participation and etc. These people who value iskies over friendships almost seem to be celebrated. In past MMORPG experiences, UO for example, people like this were always ostracized, and the completeness of societal rejection seemed to deter people from behaving such. This 'friend scamming' I just mentioned bothers me for a lot of reasons, but I won't go into anymore specifics.

I'm not trying to wreck or hate anyone else's sandbox here, just wanting to share some thoughts. Nostalgia has a funny way of always making the past seem better than the present. And after all, I'm sure many more people than just myself have found ways to enjoy the exact game characteristics I just described as unappealing.


If you rip everybody off you will soon be left with no friends.

That will get boring.

It's a sandbox, play as you wish.
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#27 - 2013-03-14 17:51:43 UTC
I too disagree on the 'subculture where ripping eveyone off is encouraged'. On the contrary. I think this 'subculture' really resides within a subset of EVE's population. I detect in myself that I am oppurtunistic, if I see a juicy target on d-scan I will try and engage it and I have no moral issues doing so. I commit to piracy at times because I like explosions, not because I have malign intentions on a personal level. I'm pretty crap at PVP and I want to get better... so I shoot people! But I wouldn't want to trick someone and cash in on other people's stupidity. Aside from scams just not sitting right with me, scamming might actually do more harm then good in my particular situation. The flipside is that I have no qualms about posting with my main.

I enjoy challenge in FiS, and where social engineering is concerned I simply don't want to be known as a scammer. I find more enjoyment in positive social dealings, and heck - there's some steady ISK to be made there too. Or ISK to be saved, rather. I often contract a load of assets to a specific person, trusting him to supply my corporation with the final product. We both make / save some ISK over it, and a lot in the long run. I'd imagine this to be at least as common as Jita scams, albeit less visible to outsiders.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#28 - 2013-03-14 18:50:46 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Mag's wrote:
You don't have to scam friends, just be careful who you deem as friends.

There are plenty of good people playing this game and they tend to be in the most unexpected places.

Quite a few of mine are to be found on my overview...

You play logistics ships? Good job :)


Well that too, but what I meant is that I have friends whom, if we encountered each other in space, we would cheerfully engage in boatviolence, but whom I can nevertheless lend ISK to and expect get it back.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Kaiekalpana
Tandoori Tunafish
#29 - 2013-03-14 19:21:38 UTC
Inxentas Ultramar wrote:
The flipside is that I have no qualms about posting with my main.



I too would have no qualms about posting with my main if I had any reason whatsoever to actually trust the playerbase at large to behave in a civilized fashion rather than as a bunch of teenagers stuck in a popularity contest where the runners up get thrown to the dogs.
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2013-03-14 19:40:16 UTC
Kaiekalpana wrote:
Inxentas Ultramar wrote:
The flipside is that I have no qualms about posting with my main.



I too would have no qualms about posting with my main if I had any reason whatsoever to actually trust the playerbase at large to behave in a civilized fashion rather than as a bunch of teenagers stuck in a popularity contest where the runners up get thrown to the dogs.


Maybe the problem is your attitude? Though, really, if you're that disenfranchised with the game, why bother paying for it at all? Just unsub and go play something else. It's not like Eve is the only game available on the Interwebs.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
Kaiekalpana
Tandoori Tunafish
#31 - 2013-03-14 19:49:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaiekalpana
You're right, Eve isn't the only game on the interwebs, though it is the only game I have found like it on the interwebs.

It isn't the games fault that the majority of the players are insufferable, well, at least the majority of the players that I've ended up interacting with in 0.0.

Also, in case you're wondering, no, my Alliance wasn't evicted, yes, we still hold space, yes, they are mostly asshats and followers content to be someone elses tool.

Finally, if you'd interacted with me when I'm not feeling quite so bitter, you'd see that I actually have a very gregarious personality.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#32 - 2013-03-14 19:52:42 UTC
Kaiekalpana wrote:
Inxentas Ultramar wrote:
The flipside is that I have no qualms about posting with my main.



I too would have no qualms about posting with my main if I had any reason whatsoever to actually trust the playerbase at large to behave in a civilized fashion rather than as a bunch of teenagers stuck in a popularity contest where the runners up get thrown to the dogs.


I once got a Drake of mine doomsdayed for being outspoken in favour of the titan nerf, but other than that, in almost 7 years I don't recall ever suffering any negative consequences for posting with my main. Quite the reverse, in fact.

So which of us is the foolish one?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Kaiekalpana
Tandoori Tunafish
#33 - 2013-03-14 19:57:41 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Kaiekalpana wrote:
Inxentas Ultramar wrote:
The flipside is that I have no qualms about posting with my main.



I too would have no qualms about posting with my main if I had any reason whatsoever to actually trust the playerbase at large to behave in a civilized fashion rather than as a bunch of teenagers stuck in a popularity contest where the runners up get thrown to the dogs.


I once got a Drake of mine doomsdayed for being outspoken in favour of the titan nerf, but other than that, in almost 7 years I don't recall ever suffering any negative consequences for posting with my main. Quite the reverse, in fact.

So which of us is the trusting one?


FYP
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#34 - 2013-03-14 20:01:54 UTC
Kaiekalpana wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Kaiekalpana wrote:
Inxentas Ultramar wrote:
The flipside is that I have no qualms about posting with my main.



I too would have no qualms about posting with my main if I had any reason whatsoever to actually trust the playerbase at large to behave in a civilized fashion rather than as a bunch of teenagers stuck in a popularity contest where the runners up get thrown to the dogs.


I once got a Drake of mine doomsdayed for being outspoken in favour of the titan nerf, but other than that, in almost 7 years I don't recall ever suffering any negative consequences for posting with my main. Quite the reverse, in fact.

So which of us is the trusting one?


FYP


Well one battlecruiser in 7 years is a pretty small price to pay for the respect, entertainment and knowledge that I've gained from the EVE community.

What, exactly, am I risking?

And honestly, I really think you over-rate your importance if you think tha tpeople are going to go out of their way to seek you out in-game just for your posting. Unless you really make an effort to be obnoxious, why would anyone bother? Lord knows, I certainly don't set any kind of example for tact or soft words. Nor am I super space rich enough to not care.

Seriously, what are you scared of?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Velicitia
XS Tech
#35 - 2013-03-14 21:20:49 UTC
kai = mittens, molle, kugu, grendell, seleene, chribba, akita, j'pol, tippia, kelduum, or someone else space-important Smile

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Zapp Brenigan
Ishukone Black Watch
#36 - 2013-03-14 22:02:19 UTC
Kaiekalpana wrote:
If there is no joy left why stay?


Vengeance.

"Zapp Brenigan is the greatest Starfleet Captain since Han Solo." - Malcolm Reynolds (Battlestar Galactica)
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#37 - 2013-03-14 22:54:35 UTC
Diesel Phumes wrote:

The second is a subculture mentality, I seem to have been experiencing, that you should rip anyone and everyone off, including your friends, if the right opportunity presents itself. I'm game for pulling one over on some scrub you just met or some idiot who deserves it. It seems to me that because ripping off EVERYONE is encouraged, it becomes Eve's societal norm, which increases levels of complacency, participation and etc. These people who value iskies over friendships almost seem to be celebrated. In past MMORPG experiences, UO for example, people like this were always ostracized, and the completeness of societal rejection seemed to deter people from behaving such. This 'friend scamming' I just mentioned bothers me for a lot of reasons, but I won't go into anymore specifics.

I'm not trying to wreck or hate anyone else's sandbox here, just wanting to share some thoughts. Nostalgia has a funny way of always making the past seem better than the present. And after all, I'm sure many more people than just myself have found ways to enjoy the exact game characteristics I just described as unappealing.


You should not let the "subculture" influence you.

You should be prudent, yes. But not become like them. EvE is like RL: you can be a douche, you can be a scammer but you can also become a respected and constructive influential player.

In EvE there's space for everyone. I have gathered more ISK with a charity (in your EvE! Pirate) than most have done by scamming.

Actually, the fact that EvE is so "free form", makes reputation all the more important. Since there's no EULA enforced "good conduit" nor community peer pressure on behaving nice, those who prove being worth of trust and praise over the years, surge to "demi-god" status.

Nobody recalls a Jita scammer, all recall Chribba.



Kaiekalpana wrote:
Inxentas Ultramar wrote:
The flipside is that I have no qualms about posting with my main.



I too would have no qualms about posting with my main if I had any reason whatsoever to actually trust the playerbase at large to behave in a civilized fashion rather than as a bunch of teenagers stuck in a popularity contest where the runners up get thrown to the dogs.


I post with my main since the beginning, well before I became a station trader. It's a way to show you are very committed on what you do.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Halcyon Ingenium
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#38 - 2013-03-14 23:04:31 UTC
Trust is the Foundation of Business.

Don't let the loud talkers fool you into thinking this is less true in EVE.

And as in real life, caveat emptor!

By the way, since we're already talking, do you want to buy a rifter? I've got the cheapest rifters in Metropolis. If you can find a cheaper rifter, buy it!
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#39 - 2013-03-14 23:50:19 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Kaiekalpana wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Kaiekalpana wrote:
Inxentas Ultramar wrote:
The flipside is that I have no qualms about posting with my main.



I too would have no qualms about posting with my main if I had any reason whatsoever to actually trust the playerbase at large to behave in a civilized fashion rather than as a bunch of teenagers stuck in a popularity contest where the runners up get thrown to the dogs.


I once got a Drake of mine doomsdayed for being outspoken in favour of the titan nerf, but other than that, in almost 7 years I don't recall ever suffering any negative consequences for posting with my main. Quite the reverse, in fact.

So which of us is the trusting one?


FYP

Well one battlecruiser in 7 years is a pretty small price to pay for the respect, entertainment and knowledge that I've gained from the EVE community.

What, exactly, am I risking?

And honestly, I really think you over-rate your importance if you think tha tpeople are going to go out of their way to seek you out in-game just for your posting. Unless you really make an effort to be obnoxious, why would anyone bother? Lord knows, I certainly don't set any kind of example for tact or soft words. Nor am I super space rich enough to not care.

Seriously, what are you scared of?

We had newbies losing rifters to titans, all for the cause.

P.S. You can probably find my "main" near VFK. Docked and training.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Kane Alvo
Doomheim
#40 - 2013-03-15 00:38:41 UTC
Forums generally represent the vocal minority in any MMO. Given that tears are to be shared and enjoyed by others, there's a large presence of douchebaggery represented on the forums that isn't really the social norm of the game community as a whole. That's been my experience anyway.

I've met quite a great number of good people in game. And if I'm being totally honest, some of the players who act like asshats on the forums are actually pretty decent when you talk to them one-on-one as well. Don't take for granted that the guy who just blew up your ship is being a jerk. Most of them are willing to tell you what you did wrong and how you can improve your fit.

Caldari Militia  ☜★☞ Psychotic Monk for CSM8

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