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We have to pay through Nexon from next April. Question from a "Japan based player"

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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#121 - 2011-10-29 05:58:10 UTC
Tommy Laughingface wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:

Could you post a link to something that gives an idea of many people have had their billing/payment information compromised?

I can't find any, only people speaking of somebody highjacking their character.

I'm still not sure how teaming up with one of the biggest and most successful publishers in the world is going to lose CCP accounts.


If you cannot read Japanese, where is the point in posting the links to those Japanese pages we know?
If you are so eager to find, why don't you google it "NEXON, Account Hack, Privacy" these words will show something you in English as well?

http://game.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/20101026_402746.html

Here is an example of Japanese game news website "Game Watch" article on NEXON.
The article writer's Nexon account was hacked, and all his cash in the account was gone, and he reported this to NEXON which gave no support, he reported to police, and his lawyer as well with no solution.

I also had an experience of hack, my character was hacked, my gmail hacked right after this, sending spams to all my address book...
It was terrible.


I appreciate the link, although I didn't do me any good.

I did take your advice and google the phrases you suggested.

I found dozens of cases of people having their gaming account hacked and items removed.

I found no cases of people having credit card information compromised.

Most of the cases appear to likely be due to the player going to the multitude of sites that sell in game currency for money and getting a key logger... but not all. It looks as if there are some hacking programs out there that can get into someone's game account and listed email address with just a character name. However, these tools do not allow access to anyone's actual payment information.

So I'm confused.

If you use your Nexon account solely to purchase PLEX (or a subscription, which I assume will be available through them) when you need it, what exactly would anyone get if they hacked your gaming account. They still can't get into your EVE character to sell your in game items, and apparently never could get into your personal payment information.

I suppose it's possible they could get your email account information which could be a problem (assuming you don't have a gmail account or something similar just for this sort of thing) but I'm really not even sure if the same sort of interface/information will be used for setting things up through Nexon to play EVE.

I'm not unsympathetic, but I really think you may have to wait for more details about what will be entailed when going through Nexon to access EVE before you can realistically decide if there is a security risk involved or not. Too many unknowns about the procedure at this point.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Texty
State War Academy
Caldari State
#122 - 2011-10-29 06:00:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Texty
I notice some posts referring to the "Japanese client" as something different from the existing client that you will have to install if you wish to play EVE in Japan. Here is a quote from the Email from CCP I have mentioned in OP.
Email from CCP wrote:

Language options and server
We want to use this opportunity to confirm that all Japan-based users will continue to have the option of playing in English, Japanese or any other languages officially supported by CCP. Although it is a common matter of speech to refer to a “Japanese client” to be launched in Japan, we want to emphasize that Japanese players will continue to play on Tranquility with the rest of EVE’s international community, and that Japanese will be added as a language option to the existing EVE client, which already supports English, Russian and German. All Japan-based players will retain these language options after the launch of Japanese.

And as far as I understand from the following quote, it seems that you only go through Nexon when you are doing something money-wise. You don't have to log on to Nexons portal or something each time you play EVE.
Email from CCP wrote:
Nexon will handle all EVE-related payments for Japanese users starting from April 1, 2012. ... We hereby confirm that players will keep both existing EVE accounts and characters, and that there will be no change regarding the existing EVE ID system or how it is used to access the game client and EVE-related login sites (such as EVE Gate and Account Management). Please note, however, that all players will need to establish an additional Nexon ID which will be used exclusively for billing and billing support. In short, the only change to existing account and login procedure is that after April 1, 2012 an additional login step will be added for players to access Nexon’s convenient and secure payment system. The change above will apply to all players residing in Japan regardless of nationality.

How ever, I would like CCP to clarify two things.

  • Do all Japan-based players have to sign up for a Nexon ID, regardless of how they gain their game time ?
  • If you just earn ISK and buy PLEX in game, it seems likely that you won't be making any RL billing movements, thus you won't need any Nexon IDs and won't have to get involved with Nexon at all. Will this be the case ?
  • Will there be any restrictions for Japan-based players on buying ETCs after Nexons launch ?
  • If not, will there be any "additional steps" involving Nexon in any way when we activate our codes ? (actually I've never bought or used ETCs myself so I'm not sure what I'm talking about but I'll still ask)



Wow, this [list] BBcode is dissapointing o.O Aren't they meant to have nice indents ? It's not much different than just typing a dot or something without using any BBcodes at all :)
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#123 - 2011-10-29 06:14:08 UTC
Texty wrote:
I notice some posts referring to the "Japanese client" as something different from the existing client that you will have to install if you wish to play EVE in Japan. Here is a quote from the Email from CCP I have mentioned in OP.
Email from CCP wrote:

Language options and server
We want to use this opportunity to confirm that all Japan-based users will continue to have the option of playing in English, Japanese or any other languages officially supported by CCP. Although it is a common matter of speech to refer to a “Japanese client” to be launched in Japan, we want to emphasize that Japanese players will continue to play on Tranquility with the rest of EVE’s international community, and that Japanese will be added as a language option to the existing EVE client, which already supports English, Russian and German. All Japan-based players will retain these language options after the launch of Japanese.

And as far as I understand from the following quote, it seems that you only go through Nexon when you are doing something money-wise. You don't have to log on to Nexons portal or something each time you play EVE.
Quote:
Nexon will handle all EVE-related payments for Japanese users starting from April 1, 2012. ... We hereby confirm that players will keep both existing EVE accounts and characters, and that there will be no change regarding the existing EVE ID system or how it is used to access the game client and EVE-related login sites (such as EVE Gate and Account Management). Please note, however, that all players will need to establish an additional Nexon ID which will be used exclusively for billing and billing support. In short, the only change to existing account and login procedure is that after April 1, 2012 an additional login step will be added for players to access Nexon’s convenient and secure payment system. The change above will apply to all players residing in Japan regardless of nationality.

How ever, I would like CCP to clarify two things.

  • Do all Japan-based players have to sign up for a Nexon ID, regardless of how they gain their game time ?
  • If you just earn ISK and buy PLEX in game, it seems likely that you won't be making any RL billing movements, thus you won't need any Nexon IDs and won't have to get involved with Nexon at all. Will this be the case ?
  • Will there be any restrictions for Japan-based players on buying ETCs after Nexons launch ?
  • If not, will there be any "additional steps" involving Nexon in any way when we activate our codes ? (actually I've never bought or used ETCs myself so I'm not sure what I'm talking about but I'll still ask)



Excellent questions.

To me, it looks as if the game account screens (and the game log in information it contains) is separate from the billing account information screens. I could easily be wrong, but I saw nothing on the compromised screens that looked like it had anything to do with payment options.

If this is the case, and there hasn't been any issues with the actual billing account information, it would appear you have little to worry about. They can't get into your billing info, and they can't get into EVE as it uses it's own security and log in.

Again, my information is limited and I could easily be wrong.

More detailed information is needed.

I know this is harsh, but if people are objecting to going through Nexon simply because they make crappy games that have easy ways for people to take your characters stuff I have to admit I find that a non-issue.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Tommy Laughingface
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#124 - 2011-10-29 06:18:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Tommy Laughingface
Ranger 1 wrote:
Tommy Laughingface wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:

Could you post a link to something that gives an idea of many people have had their billing/payment information compromised?

I can't find any, only people speaking of somebody highjacking their character.

I'm still not sure how teaming up with one of the biggest and most successful publishers in the world is going to lose CCP accounts.


If you cannot read Japanese, where is the point in posting the links to those Japanese pages we know?
If you are so eager to find, why don't you google it "NEXON, Account Hack, Privacy" these words will show something you in English as well?

http://game.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/20101026_402746.html

Here is an example of Japanese game news website "Game Watch" article on NEXON.
The article writer's Nexon account was hacked, and all his cash in the account was gone, and he reported this to NEXON which gave no support, he reported to police, and his lawyer as well with no solution.

I also had an experience of hack, my character was hacked, my gmail hacked right after this, sending spams to all my address book...
It was terrible.


I appreciate the link, although I didn't do me any good.

I did take your advice and google the phrases you suggested.

I found dozens of cases of people having their gaming account hacked and items removed.

I found no cases of people having credit card information compromised.

Most of the cases appear to likely be due to the player going to the multitude of sites that sell in game currency for money and getting a key logger... but not all. It looks as if there are some hacking programs out there that can get into someone's game account and listed email address with just a character name. However, these tools do not allow access to anyone's actual payment information.

So I'm confused.

If you use your Nexon account solely to purchase PLEX (or a subscription, which I assume will be available through them) when you need it, what exactly would anyone get if they hacked your gaming account. They still can't get into your EVE character to sell your in game items, and apparently never could get into your personal payment information.

I suppose it's possible they could get your email account information which could be a problem (assuming you don't have a gmail account or something similar just for this sort of thing) but I'm really not even sure if the same sort of interface/information will be used for setting things up through Nexon to play EVE.

I'm not unsympathetic, but I really think you may have to wait for more details about what will be entailed when going through Nexon to access EVE before you can realistically decide if there is a security risk involved or not. Too many unknowns about the procedure at this point.


When your NEXON account is hacked, the hacker can access your personal information, name, billing address, phone number, well I don't know about creditcard information, but others are enough to be called "personal".
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#125 - 2011-10-29 06:28:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Quote:
When your NEXON account is hacked, the hacker can access your personal information, name, billing address, phone number, and creditcard information.


That is indeed serious.

It does make me wonder why none of the reports I read mention that (they were pretty specifically about losing in game items/currency)... or you yourself for that matter. You only mentioned the hassle of your gmail account being compromised. I would have thought you would have mentioned that first and foremost.

Perhaps I missed it.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Tommy Laughingface
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#126 - 2011-10-29 06:30:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Tommy Laughingface
Ranger 1 wrote:
Quote:
When your NEXON account is hacked, the hacker can access your personal information, name, billing address, phone number, and creditcard information.


That is indeed serious.

It does make me wonder why none of the reports I read mention that (they were pretty specifically about losing in game items/currnecy)... or you yourself for that matter. You only mentioned the hassle of your gmail account being compromised. I would have thought you would have mentioned that first and foremost.

Perhaps I missed it.


Did you also miss that the Nexon Points in these accounts (about thousands of dollars in some cases) were stolen by hackers?
Amount of money stolen is varied but the reports are everywhere in Google if you try a few of those words, and none of them got them back as far as I know.

Oh and please read the link I provided, if you can read Japanese. I don't know how NEXON America manages their accounts tho.
soranno
14th Legion
#127 - 2011-10-29 06:38:36 UTC
Having been based in Japan since before I began playing eve, my payments have always been direct credit card transactions to CCP.
If at any point I'm a required to interact with the NEXON company in any way I will immediately cease all use of my credit card relating to eve. I will not interact with any third party companies or web sites.
Terminal Insanity
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#128 - 2011-10-29 06:40:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Terminal Insanity
you could probably still buy GTC's from Battleclinic or Shattered Crystal, couldnt you? And then pay that way

If i was forced to use some 3rd party to pay for my subscription i'd ether cancel or use GTC's from a company that isnt being forced on me

And i dont know why people are having a hard time finding english articles about this event, my first google search came up with this as the top result:
http://forum.nexon.net/PopTag/forums/thread/8431302.aspx

And theres more threads in that forum about other people losing their accounts, and how Nexon is only reimbursing them for a tiny fraction of what they actually lost.

"War declarations are never officially considered griefing and are not a bannable offense, and it has been repeatedly stated by the developers that the possibility for non-consensual PvP is an intended feature." - CCP

Tommy Laughingface
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#129 - 2011-10-29 06:43:23 UTC
Terminal Insanity wrote:
you could probably still buy GTC's from Battleclinic or Shattered Crystal, couldnt you? And then pay that way

If i was forced to use some 3rd party to pay for my subscription i'd ether cancel or use GTC's from a company that isnt being forced on me


Shattered Crystal makes international call to verify your country of residence.
I am hoping that Battleclinic to be our last hope, but I know enough about NEXON that they will not let such "security hole" to remain open.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#130 - 2011-10-29 06:56:30 UTC
Tommy Laughingface wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Quote:
When your NEXON account is hacked, the hacker can access your personal information, name, billing address, phone number, and creditcard information.


That is indeed serious.

It does make me wonder why none of the reports I read mention that (they were pretty specifically about losing in game items/currnecy)... or you yourself for that matter. You only mentioned the hassle of your gmail account being compromised. I would have thought you would have mentioned that first and foremost.

Perhaps I missed it.


Did you also miss that the Nexon Points in these accounts (about thousands of dollars in some cases) were stolen by hackers?
Amount of money stolen is varied but the reports are everywhere in Google if you try a few of those words, and none of them got them back as far as I know.

Oh and please read the link I provided, if you can read Japanese. I don't know how NEXON America manages their accounts tho.


Apparently I have missed it, as Google turns up nothing other than a couple of Nexon forum threads about the cards that you can apparently purchase in many locations not being activated properly. Nothing about Nexon points or CC info being stolen. Perhaps none of those issues has ever been translated into English? If you paid for your Nexon points just prior to paying for your subscription or PLEX that wouldn't give much opportunity for theft of your Nexon points would it?

I'm afraid I can't read Japanese, but I do appreciate the link.

I did notice that you can pay for your Nexon account via PayPal, so apparently at least they are familiar with it (which is a good thing if you are worried about CC information loss).

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Terminal Insanity
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#131 - 2011-10-29 07:00:40 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
CCP sets the price, Nexon handles the billing and likely Japanese customer support that pertains to it. Many language issues go away at that point.


Judging by the forum posts in the official Nexon website, some of their support tickets are going literally months before getting a reply (And this is for inactive/disabled accounts, people trying to play their game again) So if thats the kind of support they have to look forward to, i think thats a big issue too.


And about Shattered Crystal, could you try phoning them and arranging to have them phone your creditcard company instead of your home line? In Canada, when we make an unusual purchase with a CC, our creditcard company will hold the payment until they contact the card holder. Maybe they can do something similar if you ask? I dont know

But i feel for you guys. My DSL connection is undergoing a similar problem. I pay my ISP called TekSavvy, however, Canadian laws dictates that Bell (an entirely different company) can still throttle my connection. It is extremely frustrating and offensive to be FORCED to deal with a company that i HATE

"War declarations are never officially considered griefing and are not a bannable offense, and it has been repeatedly stated by the developers that the possibility for non-consensual PvP is an intended feature." - CCP

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#132 - 2011-10-29 07:06:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Quote:
Judging by the forum posts in the official Nexon website, some of their support tickets are going literally months before getting a reply (And this is for inactive/disabled accounts, people trying to play their game again) So if thats the kind of support they have to look forward to, i think thats a big issue too.


Yep, if that is true that's an issue that needs to be addressed.


Quote:
If i was forced to use some 3rd party to pay for my subscription i'd ether cancel or use GTC's from a company that isnt being forced on me


Interesting. When I pay anyone online (game or otherwise) I tend to use their recommended and approved methods. If they want a credit card, I use a credit card. If they prefer PayPal, I use PayPal. If CCP wanted us to use BattleClinic or Shattered Crystal, I'd use them.

Personal preference I suppose.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#133 - 2011-10-29 07:23:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
To be fair, I did just find 1 post, buried on the 2nd page of a thread on the Nexon forums that mentions NX (I'm assuming Nexon Points) lost along with stuff on his character.

Quote:
The game had such promises, but I can't play it no longer since my best avatar, NX, and cash were stolen from me and dungeon either party or solo is too difficult for me to do.


I'm not sure why you would store excess Nexon points above what you need to pay for your EVE sub, but the theft of them does at least seem possible. This young man was upset because Nexon was taking it's time reimbursing him while they investigated. There is no indication in the thread as to whether he got reimbursement, or if it was determined that a key logger or something similar was to blame.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Tommy Laughingface
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#134 - 2011-10-29 07:42:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Tommy Laughingface
Ranger 1 wrote:
To be fair, I did just find 1 post, buried on the 2nd page of a thread on the Nexon forums that mentions NX (I'm assuming Nexon Points) lost along with stuff on his character.

Quote:
The game had such promises, but I can't play it no longer since my best avatar, NX, and cash were stolen from me and dungeon either party or solo is too difficult for me to do.


I'm not sure why you would store excess Nexon points above what you need to pay for your EVE sub, but the theft of them does at least seem possible. This young man was upset because Nexon was taking it's time reimbursing him while they investigated. There is no indication in the thread as to whether he got reimbursement, or if it was determined that a key logger or something similar was to blame.


I wish Paypal was more accepted in Japan too but.... nope.
Try asking 100 non-English-speaking Japanese for a steam game exchange via Paypal, or anything via Paypal, and u can't find one.

It seems English google doesn't show up a lot of these NP missing issues, its everywhere in Japan and as far as I know people "never" got it back.
Nexon TOS clearly states that "if theft happens, its none of our business", and they are not required to reimburse, and they are known (there are even list of MMO publishers in Japan and their services) for not answering for month, and with copy and paste, and "never" reimburse the money(ingame money or Nexon Point) nor items lost.
Tommy Laughingface
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#135 - 2011-10-29 07:46:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Tommy Laughingface
Oh and this is funny but, when you charge NEXON point, they have this scheme where you always get some NP left overs that are somewhere around 600-800 yen which is not enough to use on any games, so you have to always keep it around, and this goes for all the NEXON players. (even if you don't keep large amount in your Nexon wallet)
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#136 - 2011-10-29 08:00:38 UTC
Tommy Laughingface wrote:
Oh and this is funny but, when you charge NEXON point, they have this scheme where you always get some NP left overs that are somewhere around 600-800 yen which is not enough to use on any games, so you have to always keep it around, and this goes for all the NEXON players. (even if you don't keep large amount in your Nexon wallet)


That sounds disturbingly familiar. Sad

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Texty
State War Academy
Caldari State
#137 - 2011-10-29 08:23:11 UTC
Tommy Laughingface wrote:
Oh and this is funny but, when you charge NEXON point, they have this scheme where you always get some NP left overs that are somewhere around 600-800 yen which is not enough to use on any games, so you have to always keep it around, and this goes for all the NEXON players. (even if you don't keep large amount in your Nexon wallet)

I assume you can't have your Nexon points paid back in RL money so, if this is going to be the case, it means that the monthly charges are actually higher than what it appears to be, unless you play long enough to build up those left overs and manage to spend them all (then quit playing). I would really like to know the new Nexon price as soon as possible.
cotton feel
kenkyu unso monodukuri anahori
#138 - 2011-10-29 09:24:02 UTC  |  Edited by: cotton feel
Till when should we just hold uneasiness, being unable to give information?
Depending on a price and the fee collection method, a Japanese player will retrace its steps greatly in the history in EVE.
I want CCP to offer information in a hurry.

Please do not carry out discriminatory treatment to a specific area.

A Japanese player is not a Japanese channel and should express an opinion here.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#139 - 2011-10-29 17:34:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Epeen
Nexon support.

Biggest oxymoron on the web.

For example I just got this mail. Please note the date of the ticket. Makes EVE support look pretty darn good, really.

Quote:
Greetings *******

****Please note that this is an auto-generated message from Nexon Support based on your support ticket. If you are reading this message in your email, please understand that any replies to this email will not be seen by the Nexon Support Staff. If you would like to provide additional information please add a comment to your ticket.****

Unfortunately, we are continuing to experience a high ticket volume at this time. We have not forgotten you and we apologize that a GM has not yet been able to assist you.

Please note our Nexon Support business hours. We answer tickets Monday through Friday, 10am to 6pm Pacific time.

We will do our best to assist you as soon as possible.

Thank you for your continued patience,

Nexon Support Team


Ticket Information:
Ticket #: ***************
Date Created: 05/21/2011 06:38 AM PDT


EDIT: I should note that the ticket was for the failure of the NEXON equivalent of a GTC. $30 lost. Kind of a priority ticket for them, I should think. Anyway, they lost a customer.

Mr Epeen Cool
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#140 - 2011-10-29 17:47:21 UTC
Texty wrote:
NOTE : This post has nothing to do with the majority of EVE players.

Thanks CCP for the rather disappointing Email (scroll down for English text). It has finally been revealed that we "Japan based players (anyone living in Japan)" are forced to pay through Nexon using Nexon points. Any other paying methods will be denied from next April. So, how much is it going to be ? The Email says nothing about the actual price and it worries me a lot.

Last time I bought the 6 month subscription, it was approximately Y956 per month (6 month subscription $71.7 * Y80 / 6 months, "Y" for yen). Since most Korean MMO companies tend to charge Japanese customers around Y3,000 per month (Linage, AION, TERA, etc. which is extremely expensive compared to most Japanese subscription style MMOs), I guess we must be prepared for paying something like $40 per month from next April ? And in that case, for the existing "Japan based players" who are happy with EVE just the way it currently is, that extra Y2,000 or so is going to be nothing but an enforced donation to Nexon since we have never wanted any Nexon ID nor Nexon points, Do they have anything else to offer? No.

And if its really going to be Y3,000 per month, you might as well add (only for "Japan based players" of course :p) something like this or this to NeX store, since I'm quite sure that the current Incarna avatars aren't f***y enough to attract the new coming Y3,000 paying Nexon friendly so called "moe pig" Japanese players who are accustomed to those kind of price tags.

Well, I guess it's Nexon and not CCP that decides the actual price but who cares. I hope this enforcement brings something good enough with it to make up for the massive disappointment and the feeling of unreliability the Japanese EVE player community is currently experiencing.

Excuse me for any grammatical errors.


You can not be forced to do something you don't want to.

While I understand your feelings about Nexon has company and their ability to protect information or the prices they'll be able to impose, I don't understand why you think you're stuck with that payment method.

Many players already and will some more explain you better ways to do so than I'll ever be able to since I'm EU player and don't have any sort of issue other than buy gtc's at slight higher cost than US friends.

This said, search on pay-pal side, shattered crystal, official retailers, and think about change how you are used to pay your subs. All these forms are LEGAL and no one can or will ever force you to do what you don't want to.