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No relativistic effects in EVE ?

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Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#101 - 2013-03-14 10:43:50 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
Lord Kronox wrote:
Just a guess here.... but do 50,000 plus people play Evochron Mercenary at the same time on ONE SERVER?


I believe the record number of people in one 200km chunk of space is around 2000, actually.

EvE is a series of interconnected instances. A very impressive method, mind you, but it's still very, very instanced.

"Nothing is particularly hard if you divide it into small jobs" - Henry Ford


I know what you're getting at and all but that isn't instancing. EVE doesn't have instancing the way other MMOs do, not even close.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#102 - 2013-03-14 11:13:05 UTC
Andski wrote:
Pantiy wrote:
He is a goon we know they aren't very intelligent.


wait you're agreeing with a troll reply and you think newton came up with relativity

'lol'

He was a clever dude and he did Straight
ChromeStriker
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#103 - 2013-03-14 11:21:54 UTC  |  Edited by: ChromeStriker
Warp drives create friction to real space, hence fluid dynamics.

Faster than light speed and time paradoxes are all relative. No change in time has happened for you, so skill training for example wouldn't change. Warp drives change the fabric of space as we know it, either by folding or changing its "density" to gain relative faster than light travel.

Big smile

If you really want to play mind games lets talk quantum entanglement , and quantum tick theory

No Worries
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#104 - 2013-03-14 11:27:32 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
Andski wrote:
Pantiy wrote:
He is a goon we know they aren't very intelligent.


wait you're agreeing with a troll reply and you think newton came up with relativity

'lol'

He was a clever dude and he did Straight


Wait what?

Also space is a liquid.
Jensaro Koraka
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#105 - 2013-03-14 11:27:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Jensaro Koraka
Thomas Hurt wrote:
Does anyone else find it extremely odd that this game uses laws of physics that are over 100 years old? There was this guy called Einstein, devs, not sure if you've heard of him? His work in physics was kind of a big deal, and any game that involves faster-than-light travel should take into account the causal paradoxes that would result from such technological possibilities; I should also be able to train skills faster than other people by constantly warping from one system to another (or rather, faster from the perspective of someone who is stationary).

Anyways, I just wanted to throw that out there. This really is a big issue to me; it would be like if Call of Duty had no gravity because "welp, too hard to model" and everyone just sort of floated around. You can't ignore the fundamental nature of reality and expect to present your game as internally consistent...

According to Einstein FTL travel is impossible. If we were going to follow real physics you'd have to spend decades traveling anywhere because warp wouldn't exist.

Andski wrote:
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
Lord Kronox wrote:
Just a guess here.... but do 50,000 plus people play Evochron Mercenary at the same time on ONE SERVER?


I believe the record number of people in one 200km chunk of space is around 2000, actually.

EvE is a series of interconnected instances. A very impressive method, mind you, but it's still very, very instanced.

"Nothing is particularly hard if you divide it into small jobs" - Henry Ford


I know what you're getting at and all but that isn't instancing. EVE doesn't have instancing the way other MMOs do, not even close.

Yeah. Eve isn't instanced. It just has loading screens. Big difference. Instancing in an MMO means splitting the same area into multiple copies. Like for example if there was more than one Jita and you and your friend could both be at the 4-4 undock without being able to see each other because you're in different Jitas.

"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -H.L. Mencken
Alara IonStorm
#106 - 2013-03-14 11:50:51 UTC
Debora Tsung wrote:

It's still lame. I want to equip cruise missiles with warp drives and shoot them across the system.

Inter-Planetary Ballistic Missiles. Someone links a target lock and you fire from anywhere in the system.
Inter-System Ballistic Missiles with Jump Drives, they don't even need a launcher, the Size of an Armageddon.

Terribly unbalanced though...

Big smile
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#107 - 2013-03-14 12:00:49 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Debora Tsung wrote:

It's still lame. I want to equip cruise missiles with warp drives and shoot them across the system.

Inter-Planetary Ballistic Missiles. Someone links a target lock and you fire from anywhere in the system.
Inter-System Ballistic Missiles with Jump Drives, they don't even need a launcher, the Size of an Armageddon.

Terribly unbalanced though...

Big smile


Still would be fun Big smile

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#108 - 2013-03-14 13:49:31 UTC
i have the theory of everything sitting in my sock drawer and i tested it experimentally using two mirrors and a cat, it has not failed experimentally

submitting it is too :effort: though

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#109 - 2013-03-14 15:53:31 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
Andski wrote:
Pantiy wrote:
He is a goon we know they aren't very intelligent.


wait you're agreeing with a troll reply and you think newton came up with relativity

'lol'

He was a clever dude and he did Straight


Wait what?

Also space is a liquid.


It's true, I read that Newtonian Relativity can be summed up in the pithy statement: "The laws of physics (mechanics) are the same for any observer moving at constant speed."

Quite profound :)

[b]ISD Suvetar Captain/Commando Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department[/b]
Komen
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#110 - 2013-03-14 16:34:12 UTC
ISD Suvetar wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
Andski wrote:
Pantiy wrote:
He is a goon we know they aren't very intelligent.


wait you're agreeing with a troll reply and you think newton came up with relativity

'lol'

He was a clever dude and he did Straight


Wait what?

Also space is a liquid.


It's true, I read that Newtonian Relativity can be summed up in the pithy statement: "The laws of physics (mechanics) are the same for any observer moving at constant speed."

Quite profound :)


Because forums.
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#111 - 2013-03-14 16:37:28 UTC
Thomas Hurt wrote:
Does anyone else find it extremely odd that this game uses laws of physics that are over 100 years old?


If you think EVE uses Newtonian physics, then you have no clue about Newtonian physics.

Perhaps by "over 100" you actually mean "over 400".
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#112 - 2013-03-14 17:36:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Bagrat Skalski
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Perhaps by "over 100" you actually mean "over 400".


It should be over 9000!

(But seriously, laws of physics are much more older than that, people just could not comprehend them until lately).

Custom ship skins, character creator style "repaint". Bring it!
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#113 - 2013-03-14 17:38:15 UTC
A game with a Newtonian physics model isn't the world's most fun thing (Joust! with weapons firing for the split second they're in range, by computer control)

A game with a Einsteinian physics model, including relativistic effects, that just gets mind bending. Why? Because it is possible to travel faster than light. Kinda. Subjectively. Because as time slows down for you, space contracts. As you push up towards lightspeed, time moves to a standstill for you. So while travelling 8 light years takes you, for the people you leave behind, a bit more than 8 years, for you it's taken less than 8 years. So, subjectively, faster than light. Kinda.


I think.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Lord Xelnoz
Absolute Order
Absolute Honor
#114 - 2013-03-14 20:32:46 UTC
Lord Kronox wrote:
LOL56 wrote:
Warp drives don't cause you to get anywhere near the local light speed, they create a field (of totally BS space magic) that decreases the mass of the surrounding space (a 'depleted vacuum') resulting in a large negative density for the region around the ship (the 'warp tunnel'), thus raising light speed and allowing speeds of multiple AU/s without even approaching the local light speed.

The downside to to these drives is that when in standby mode (they cannot be turned off safely) the create a force akin to friction that drags the ship into a zero velocity relative to the local gravity well (usually the local star)



This says all the OP needs to read....

This is the EvE canon regarding his question.....

If he doesn't like the EvE canon, it's time he move on to a more serious game with a much more believable fiction.. like WoW *sarc off*

In a nutshell, the gravity wells of the warp drives themselves that enable faster than light travel within systems are what cause the various physics anomalies noticed in the game.

This probably includes the limited distance of ordnance and the beams of energy weapons as well.... yes a big penalty for the ability of travel that is much faster than the normal speed of light.. but hey ... without these warp engines it would take 3 or more years to travel from one side of a system to the other. Fair trade in my opinion, I would hate EvE if it took me a year just to get from my agent to a mission destination.
Eurydia Vespasian
Storm Hunters
#115 - 2013-03-14 20:39:29 UTC
Jensaro Koraka wrote:
Like for example if there was more than one Jita and you and your friend could both be at the 4-4 undock without being able to see each other because you're in different Jitas.


whooooa! trippy man! like it's the multiverse. parallel jitas all existing side by side and no one even knows they are there maaaan! Blink
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#116 - 2013-03-14 21:23:52 UTC
Bagrat Skalski wrote:
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Perhaps by "over 100" you actually mean "over 400".


It should be over 9000!

(But seriously, laws of physics are much more older than that, people just could not comprehend them until lately).


The universe is much older, and operated as it does long before humans began trying to figure it out.

However, physics is not the universe. It is the study of the universe.

From the Greek phusika, or nature.


And it is those Classical Era Greeks of some 2500 years ago, that first attempted to describe how the universe works, in their new creation, the phonetic alphabet based written language.

These ancient Greeks did not understand wind resistance and other frictions. They believed that the universe operates much like it does in EVE. They believed that to keep something moving, you had to keep pushing on it. If you stop pushing on something, they believed it coast to a stop on its own.

They also believed in things like heavy things fall faster than lighter things, not realizing that it was density (weight/size) that actually caused things to fall at various speeds, again, due to wind resistance.

These beliefs held for some 2000 years through the Classic Roman Era, through the Dark Ages and into the Renaissance.

Galileo some 500 years ago, challenged and disproved the latter, but didn't grasp the fundamental incorrect assumptions of the Classic Greek view of the universe.

It took another 100 years (some 400 years ago) for Sir Isaac Newton to come along and totally overthrow the foundations of Classic Greek Physics, proving that bodies in motion do not slow down and stop moving on their own, but rather, bodies in motion stay in constant motion unless acted upon by an external force.

So, it was up until 400 years ago that human understanding of the universe (Physics) was aligned with the EVE game mechanics of motion in a vacuume.


Of course, I'm not aware of ANY time in the history of physics that you can sit motionless in space near a star, planet or even moon, and not be pulled in by gravity.... but, oh well.



Then again, I'm not aware of any time in the history of physics, or even current understanding, that yould let you move through a solar system at 1500x the speed of light... so, there you go.
Zapp Brenigan
Ishukone Black Watch
#117 - 2013-03-14 21:35:10 UTC
I don't think the OP thought out this whole 'realistic physics' thing, in that A) he got the time dilation backward. And B) he forgot the fact that you would be turned into paste and most likely your ship heavily damaged or destroyed every time you used a MWD or went to warp, or accelerated at all in some of the faster ships, due to inertia. I personally don't want to play a game where I spend half the time blacked out from the g-forces of accelerating in space or dead from being pulverized.

"Zapp Brenigan is the greatest Starfleet Captain since Han Solo." - Malcolm Reynolds (Battlestar Galactica)
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#118 - 2013-03-14 22:01:42 UTC
Zapp Brenigan wrote:
I don't think the OP thought out this whole 'realistic physics' thing, in that A) he got the time dilation backward. And B) he forgot the fact that you would be turned into paste and most likely your ship heavily damaged or destroyed every time you used a MWD or went to warp, or accelerated at all in some of the faster ships, due to inertia. I personally don't want to play a game where I spend half the time blacked out from the g-forces of accelerating in space or dead from being pulverized.



He said "realtivistic" as in Einstein's Theory of Relativity..


I just can't take any post seriously when it speaks of Einstein's Relativity and faster-than-light travel in the same sentence.

Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#119 - 2013-03-14 22:07:05 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:



I just can't take any post seriously when it speaks of Einstein's Relativity and faster-than-light travel in the same sentence.




'Assuming Einstein's Relativity is correct, FTL travel is impossible'.

Sorry. You are not allowed to take my post seriously now, so please point out the contradiction :)

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LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#120 - 2013-03-14 22:10:04 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
LHA Tarawa wrote:



I just can't take any post seriously when it speaks of Einstein's Relativity and faster-than-light travel in the same sentence.




'Assuming Einstein's Relativity is correct, FTL travel is impossible'.

Sorry. You are not allowed to take my post seriously now, so please point out the contradiction :)




Dang you... You just won EVE Forum wars.

Time to unsub my accounts (which I really just had to play forum wars anyway).