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The difference between a carebear and an EVE industrialist

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NoCode 315
Doomheim
#81 - 2013-03-13 22:48:52 UTC  |  Edited by: NoCode 315
Why waste your time having tons of alts that need to be plexed monitoring local, just use a cheap barge with no implants and if u really want put a tank on it, but toons that dont mine and others that reduce effectiveness can often times result in losses larger then being ganked.



You should also have your clone set nearby and have a large set of spare barges and parts already waiting and ready to save more losses from downtime.
Whitethorn Reyhold
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#82 - 2013-03-14 06:02:22 UTC
Does Carebear mean something different in this MMO than others? I had always understood it simply to mean a player who likes helping out other players, and is therefore more social if anything.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#83 - 2013-03-14 06:08:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Sabriz Adoudel
Whitethorn Reyhold wrote:
Does Carebear mean something different in this MMO than others? I had always understood it simply to mean a player who likes helping out other players, and is therefore more social if anything.


In this game, a carebear is basically someone that wants hard rules enforced by GMs against most or all player interactions that aren't mutually agreed to. PVP outside arranged duels, corp thefts, 'scamming', etc.

It's a spectrum - some people have one or two carebear inclinations (maybe they are OK with most highsec PVP but want wardecs nerfed), others want the game to move closer to WOW's PVE servers where you cannot attack a player unless they have set a menu option to allow you to. (Oddly these people are usually quite fine with using the market, an inherently PVP area, and being able to undercut which can cost their market rivals more ISK than a Hulk gank).

Botters are the most extreme carebears, of course, wanting a game where noone can interact with them, not even NPCs. But anyone that says 'Leave me alone, I want to play the game with you unable to interact with me' is a carebear.



Edit: Carebears exist out of highsec but most of them live there. 'Nullbears' are carebears in the safer areas of sovereign nullsec, the only non-highsec place safe enough for carebear play.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
pussnheels
Viziam
#84 - 2013-03-14 06:41:19 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
i stopped reading after a few lines
the OP s assumption that all carebears are afk miners and /or use macro s just proofs the OP knows absolutely nothing about this game or what sort of people he is talking about

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. And also, please don't shout....ISD Ezwal

I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire
Velicitia
XS Tech
#85 - 2013-03-14 09:37:55 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
But carebears can be good players and industrialists can be bad players.

Approach to the game doesn't equal skill in that approach.

Alternatively, you can start as one and become the other.

Not to mention factoring the term "nullbear" into it either.

...it's like trying to split the terms "newb" and "rookie" and doesn't really warrant a full on description of the term imo.

Too much over analyzing.



"newb" = newbie = "rookie" -- they're directly synonymous. I believe the term you were looking for was "noob" (alternatively, "n00b"), the derogatory term for people who spout off about "it shouldn't be like this!" when they obviously have been in the game long enough to understand the mechanics involved (e.g. CONCORD will gank you in hisec for being bad).

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#86 - 2013-03-14 10:30:11 UTC
The industrialist simply boycotts producing Catalysts, small blasters and antimatter hybrid ammo. Then they persuade others to do the same. Local costs for all of the above skyrockets. Lazy gankers move to greener pastures.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#87 - 2013-03-14 10:34:41 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
The industrialist simply boycotts producing Catalysts, small blasters and antimatter hybrid ammo. Then they persuade others to do the same. Local costs for all of the above skyrockets. Lazy gankers move to greener pastures.


What makes you think they can get such a cartel operation happening?

Every industrialist would have massive incentives to break the boycott. Especially when gankers will pay 5% or 20% more in a heartbeat.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#88 - 2013-03-14 10:37:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
The industrialist simply boycotts producing Catalysts, small blasters and antimatter hybrid ammo. Then they persuade others to do the same. Local costs for all of the above skyrockets. Lazy gankers move to greener pastures.


Or they and their industrialist backbone seed the market themselves, or trade the required ships and modules via contracts. The gankers aren't reliant on local supplies, they'll either have their own logistics chain that covers everything from raw materials to the freighters required to ship in what the local market can't supply, or they know someone that does.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#89 - 2013-03-14 10:41:25 UTC
came to see new load of new order propaganda

left satisfied

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Velicitia
XS Tech
#90 - 2013-03-14 11:36:55 UTC
1-4 pilots is usually enough to tick off most bears.

It's surprising how _FAST_ a system clears out when 2 or 3 pilots go flashy red...

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Domina Trix
McKNOBBLER DRINKING CLAN
#91 - 2013-03-14 11:55:36 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
1-4 pilots is usually enough to tick off most bears.

It's surprising how _FAST_ a system clears out when 2 or 3 pilots go flashy red...


By the definitions presented in this thread the "industrialist" would hang around and wait to get ganked? yeah right, but if they do the sensible thing because a bunch of red carebears have waltzed into the system then suddenly they become the carebear?

Docking when gankers come into the system is simply a reduction of isk-losses, strangely enough the exact same reason gankers use cheap ships to gank in, the reduction of cost.

Two of the defining characteristics of a carebear are wanting other players to play the way the carebear wants and whining on the forums for the game to change when they don't. Yet I see more threads on these forums from gankers than I do miners whining about wanting the game changed to suit them.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#92 - 2013-03-14 12:11:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Domina Trix wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
1-4 pilots is usually enough to tick off most bears.

It's surprising how _FAST_ a system clears out when 2 or 3 pilots go flashy red...


By the definitions presented in this thread the "industrialist" would hang around and wait to get ganked? yeah right, but if they do the sensible thing because a bunch of red carebears have waltzed into the system then suddenly they become the carebear?

Docking when gankers come into the system is simply a reduction of isk-losses, strangely enough the exact same reason gankers use cheap ships to gank in, the reduction of cost.


The problem isn't with the people who dock up their mining ships, they're at least paying attention. It's the ones that are so oblivious to their surroundings, or afk, that they remain where they are, who whine, and demand changes, when they explode.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#93 - 2013-03-14 12:25:44 UTC
Domina Trix wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
1-4 pilots is usually enough to tick off most bears.

It's surprising how _FAST_ a system clears out when 2 or 3 pilots go flashy red...
By the definitions presented in this thread the "industrialist" would hang around and wait to get ganked?
No. By the definitions presented in this thread, the “industrialists” would have a back-up plan that they'd initiate, and would not be ticked off by it.

There's absolutely no need to dock up just because there are gankers in the system.
Domina Trix
McKNOBBLER DRINKING CLAN
#94 - 2013-03-14 12:37:14 UTC
Quote:
No. By the definitions presented in this thread, the “industrialists” would have a back-up plan that they'd initiate, and would not be ticked off by it.

There's absolutely no need to dock up just because there are gankers in the system.


Tanking for a possible gank is just one way of dealing with the threat but lowers yield.

Fitting for yield increases the risk of losing a ship to gankers but this is mitigated somewhat by warping whenever red names appear in local.

Those are just two ways to deal with the threat of ganking, yet one gets called an "industrialist" and the other "carebear".

Two of the defining characteristics of a carebear are wanting other players to play the way the carebear wants and whining on the forums for the game to change when they don't. Yet I see more threads on these forums from gankers than I do miners whining about having the game changed to suit them.

Two of the defining characteristics of a carebear are wanting other players to play the way the carebear wants and whining on the forums for the game to change when they don't. Yet I see more threads on these forums from gankers than I do miners whining about wanting the game changed to suit them.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#95 - 2013-03-14 13:03:12 UTC
Domina Trix wrote:
Tanking for a possible gank is just one way of dealing with the threat but lowers yield.

Fitting for yield increases the risk of losing a ship to gankers but this is mitigated somewhat by warping whenever red names appear in local.

Those are just two ways to deal with the threat of ganking, yet one gets called an "industrialist" and the other "carebear".
Eh, no. Neither is called either.

Quote:
Yet I see more threads on these forums from gankers than I do miners whining about having the game changed to suit them.
You haven't been on the forums much, then. Just have a quick search for the bajillion “buff hulk/nerf ganking“ threads we've had.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#96 - 2013-03-14 14:48:53 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Domina Trix wrote:
Tanking for a possible gank is just one way of dealing with the threat but lowers yield.

Fitting for yield increases the risk of losing a ship to gankers but this is mitigated somewhat by warping whenever red names appear in local.

Those are just two ways to deal with the threat of ganking, yet one gets called an "industrialist" and the other "carebear".


No, both of those approaches fit quite handily under the "industrialist" heading, per OP's definition.

The "carebear"* doesn't tank their mackinaw and makes no attempt to warp away (usually because they're AFK), and then is upset and stumped over the burning wreckage that was their 200m ISK ship.

*again, OP's definition.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Velicitia
XS Tech
#97 - 2013-03-14 14:58:31 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Domina Trix wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
1-4 pilots is usually enough to tick off most bears.

It's surprising how _FAST_ a system clears out when 2 or 3 pilots go flashy red...
By the definitions presented in this thread the "industrialist" would hang around and wait to get ganked?
No. By the definitions presented in this thread, the “industrialists” would have a back-up plan that they'd initiate, and would not be ticked off by it.

There's absolutely no need to dock up just because there are gankers in the system.


yeah, bastards camped the gates... ShockedShockedShockedShocked

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#98 - 2013-03-14 15:48:46 UTC
Here's another difference:

Carebear: The minerals I mine/blueprints I own/commodities I produce/Datacores I farm are free

Industrialist: Everything gets calculated as if I would buy it and if I don't make 5-10% profit it's not worth my time unless there are huge numbers.

Sovereignty and Population

New Mining Mechanics
Alexzandvar Douglass
Motiveless Malignity
Deepwater Hooligans
#99 - 2013-03-14 16:22:25 UTC
The easiest solution to all issues is just mine in nullsec.


Iv always mined in nullsec, have never, ever, lost a single barge! And I have all the Veldspar I want to sell at high prices to super cap builders!
Kane Alvo
Doomheim
#100 - 2013-03-14 16:25:11 UTC
Alexzandvar Douglass wrote:
The easiest solution to all issues is just mine in nullsec.


Iv always mined in nullsec, have never, ever, lost a single barge! And I have all the Veldspar I want to sell at high prices to super cap builders!


Don't let Malcanis and his null bear entourage see this post. There's still trying to convince us that null industry needs a buff.

Shocked

Caldari Militia  ☜★☞ Psychotic Monk for CSM8