These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

No relativistic effects in EVE ?

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Cat Casidy
Percussive Diplomacy
Sedition.
#61 - 2013-03-13 22:27:45 UTC
I stopped playing the Battlefield series because I never got to use my drop charts, garbage...

.
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#62 - 2013-03-13 22:37:19 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
nah mate

it was newton came up with relativity


Newtonian physics in EVE? Don't make me laugh.

I think Newton would be really displeased with frigates bumping titans.

I mean the mass required to move a massive object that big tends to need a lot of extreme momentum more than a frig can do or a mass frigs obviously aren't of.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
Lord Kronox
Absolute Order
Absolute Honor
#63 - 2013-03-13 22:54:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Lord Kronox
LOL56 wrote:
Warp drives don't cause you to get anywhere near the local light speed, they create a field (of totally BS space magic) that decreases the mass of the surrounding space (a 'depleted vacuum') resulting in a large negative density for the region around the ship (the 'warp tunnel'), thus raising light speed and allowing speeds of multiple AU/s without even approaching the local light speed.

The downside to to these drives is that when in standby mode (they cannot be turned off safely) the create a force akin to friction that drags the ship into a zero velocity relative to the local gravity well (usually the local star)



This says all the OP needs to read....

This is the EvE canon regarding his question.....

If he doesn't like the EvE canon, it's time he move on to a more serious game with a much more believable fiction.. like WoW *sarc off*

In a nutshell, the gravity wells of the warp drives themselves that enable faster than light travel within systems are what cause the various physics anomalies noticed in the game.

This probably includes the limited distance of ordnance and the beams of energy weapons as well.... yes a big penalty for the ability of travel that is much faster than the normal speed of light.. but hey ... without these warp engines it would take 3 or more years to travel from one side of a system to the other. Fair trade in my opinion, I would hate EvE if it took me a year just to get from my agent to a mission destination.
ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#64 - 2013-03-13 23:02:02 UTC
Tippia wrote:
…and anyway, I prefer the Futurama solution: since you can't go faster than the speed of light, increase the speed of light.


That's not quite as insane as it sounds; One of the theories of how the universe has expanded so far, in the time that we think its been around could indicate that the speed of light was actually faster in the early stages of the universe.

Science, capsuleers!

[b]ISD Suvetar Captain/Commando Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department[/b]
Lord Kronox
Absolute Order
Absolute Honor
#65 - 2013-03-13 23:06:14 UTC
ISD Suvetar wrote:
Tippia wrote:
…and anyway, I prefer the Futurama solution: since you can't go faster than the speed of light, increase the speed of light.


That's not quite as insane as it sounds; One of the theories of how the universe has expanded so far, in the time that we think its been around could indicate that the speed of light was actually faster in the early stages of the universe.

Science, capsuleers!



True, watched a special on Discovery Channel with that famous Asian physicist guy (sorry forgot his name) and he said that the big bang would've started as an infintesimally small point and expanded to the size of our solar system in a matter of millionths of a second...... that is way faster than the speed of light.... so eithor he is right or Einstein was right or they are both in a way right and that the speed of light itself can be changed....

Something to fry your noodles with.....
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#66 - 2013-03-13 23:12:09 UTC
Surely one of the biggest atrocities against relativistic physics in this game is the instant communication.

I can be in a station 10AU (80 light minutes) from an asteroid belt and get instant intel from the belt that there's three untanked Hulks there from a scout and assemble a fleet to obliterate them well before the message should have even travelled 1AU.

Of course this is needed for the game to be entertaining.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#67 - 2013-03-13 23:14:40 UTC
Lord Kronox wrote:
ISD Suvetar wrote:
Tippia wrote:
…and anyway, I prefer the Futurama solution: since you can't go faster than the speed of light, increase the speed of light.


That's not quite as insane as it sounds; One of the theories of how the universe has expanded so far, in the time that we think its been around could indicate that the speed of light was actually faster in the early stages of the universe.

Science, capsuleers!



True, watched a special on Discovery Channel with that famous Asian physicist guy (sorry forgot his name) and he said that the big bang would've started as an infintesimally small point and expanded to the size of our solar system in a matter of millionths of a second...... that is way faster than the speed of light.... so eithor he is right or Einstein was right or they are both in a way right and that the speed of light itself can be changed....

Something to fry your noodles with.....


Yeah during the inflationary phase of the universe energy levels were so high that our present model of physics breaks down entirely. Otherwise, the entire universe would have been inside its Swartzchild radius and thus become a black hole immediately.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Caviar Liberta
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#68 - 2013-03-13 23:44:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Caviar Liberta
Lord Kronox wrote:
ISD Suvetar wrote:
Tippia wrote:
…and anyway, I prefer the Futurama solution: since you can't go faster than the speed of light, increase the speed of light.


That's not quite as insane as it sounds; One of the theories of how the universe has expanded so far, in the time that we think its been around could indicate that the speed of light was actually faster in the early stages of the universe.

Science, capsuleers!



True, watched a special on Discovery Channel with that famous Asian physicist guy (sorry forgot his name) and he said that the big bang would've started as an infintesimally small point and expanded to the size of our solar system in a matter of millionths of a second...... that is way faster than the speed of light.... so eithor he is right or Einstein was right or they are both in a way right and that the speed of light itself can be changed....

Something to fry your noodles with.....


Michio Kaku?
Elysium Foxx
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#69 - 2013-03-14 00:00:48 UTC
I'm just happy we're not warping straight through the middle of planets any more.

tWas the best expansion ever!
Lord Kronox
Absolute Order
Absolute Honor
#70 - 2013-03-14 00:50:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Lord Kronox
Elysium Foxx wrote:
I'm just happy we're not warping straight through the middle of planets any more.

tWas the best expansion ever!


Well since warp engines change the physics of the area surrounding the ship, one would assume this includes the physics of solid matter as well. As such, I didn't have too much of a problem warping through planets... as I am sure you are actually warping through all kinds of other solid matter at the speed and directness that a warp tunnel delivers you. In real space a micro-meteor can destroy a space ship. It is still refreshing though, I am with you... as it never really felt like you were going through a planet... but through an illusion of a planet as that is exactly what it is.

My biggest thrill with this patch and the reason I came back to EvE after a three year hiatus is that rats in plexes now attack the ganker and not just the ganked. I always thought ganking someone at a plex in null sec was too damn easy and pandered to the ganker.

That has been fixed and it is good....
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
#71 - 2013-03-14 01:10:56 UTC
ISD Suvetar wrote:
Tippia wrote:
…and anyway, I prefer the Futurama solution: since you can't go faster than the speed of light, increase the speed of light.


That's not quite as insane as it sounds; One of the theories of how the universe has expanded so far, in the time that we think its been around could indicate that the speed of light was actually faster in the early stages of the universe.

Science, capsuleers!



Since no one was there to observe it, did light even exist?

Signature removed - CCP Eterne
ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#72 - 2013-03-14 01:15:21 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
Surely one of the biggest atrocities against relativistic physics in this game is the instant communication.

I can be in a station 10AU (80 light minutes) from an asteroid belt and get instant intel from the belt that there's three untanked Hulks there from a scout and assemble a fleet to obliterate them well before the message should have even travelled 1AU.

Of course this is needed for the game to be entertaining.



The backstory that (supposedly) covers this, is actually almost possible now.

Quantum entanglement is an idea that many people know of, but generally don't understand (like Schroedingers cat don't get me started).

Not only is it that the changes that happen to one of the pair is transferred inversely (a clockwise spin on one becomes an anti-clockwise spin on the other). It's been shown that this happens at distances so far from eachother, that the change could not have been communicated in a medium that's bounded by c.

Not only that, but there are estimates that this transfer could be anywhere as fast as 10,000 times c.

Of course, the problem we have is reading the entangled pair without destroying it and of course, easily inducing a change in the quantum state.

This is the real magic!

* c being the constant of the Speed of light.

[b]ISD Suvetar Captain/Commando Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department[/b]
Halcyon Ingenium
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#73 - 2013-03-14 01:19:04 UTC
ISD Suvetar wrote:
(like Schroedingers cat don't get me started)


Would it be safe to say that this is both a very and not very frustrating issue for you?

By the way, since we're already talking, do you want to buy a rifter? I've got the cheapest rifters in Metropolis. If you can find a cheaper rifter, buy it!
iskflakes
#74 - 2013-03-14 01:23:20 UTC  |  Edited by: iskflakes
ISD Suvetar wrote:
is actually almost possible now.



...I see they teach you ISDs about as much physics as the physics programmers :)

-
ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#75 - 2013-03-14 01:25:50 UTC
Halcyon Ingenium wrote:
ISD Suvetar wrote:
(like Schroedingers cat don't get me started)


Would it be safe to say that this is both a very and not very frustrating issue for you?


It depends how fast you ask me!

(Quantum Uncertainty is not the same the the Observer effect)

[b]ISD Suvetar Captain/Commando Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department[/b]
ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#76 - 2013-03-14 01:27:25 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Suvetar
iskflakes wrote:
ISD Suvetar wrote:
is actually almost possible now.



...I see they teach you ISDs about as much physics as the physics programmers :)


The very fact that we can currently make these experiments and make these observations, means that it's possible in a physical sense, rather then any kind on-paper theory here.

I am not suggesting that we will all have fluid routers in the next few years.

[b]ISD Suvetar Captain/Commando Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department[/b]
iskflakes
#77 - 2013-03-14 01:37:43 UTC
ISD Suvetar wrote:
The very fact that we can currently make these experiments and make these observations, means that it's possible in a physical sense, rather then any kind on-paper theory here.

I am not suggesting that we will all have fluid routers in the next few years.


We can perform the experiments, but even in principal you can't use entanglement to transfer information. Hence why I took issue with "possible in the near future". As far as we know, it won't be possible ever :(

Oh well, as has been rightly pointed out EVE doesn't have to be realistic as long as it's fun.

-
ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#78 - 2013-03-14 01:42:22 UTC
iskflakes wrote:


We can perform the experiments, but even in principal you can't use entanglement to transfer information. Hence why I took issue with "possible in the near future". As far as we know, it won't be possible ever :(

Oh well, as has been rightly pointed out EVE doesn't have to be realistic as long as it's fun.


EVE is fun :)

But, regarding the other point - I know I'm being a pedant, but it depends what you define as being information?
After-all, the experiments prove that we know the state of one of the pairs ... and if we can't actually extract the specific (although i'd bet we'd just be saying that any of one rotation is 1, and any of the other is 0) we have the information that the pair was changed by effecting the first.

If we didn't know that, we wouldn't know that the experiments work!

[b]ISD Suvetar Captain/Commando Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department[/b]
Eurydia Vespasian
Storm Hunters
#79 - 2013-03-14 01:47:30 UTC
i can handle warping through planets because it gives that cool darkening effect...but the warping through stations is just rubbish.
iskflakes
#80 - 2013-03-14 01:52:16 UTC
ISD Suvetar wrote:
But, regarding the other point - I know I'm being a pedant, but it depends what you define as being information?
After-all, the experiments prove that we know the state of one of the pairs ... and if we can't actually extract the specific (although i'd bet we'd just be saying that any of one rotation is 1, and any of the other is 0) we have the information that the pair was changed by effecting the first.

If we didn't know that, we wouldn't know that the experiments work!


You're right -- I should be more specific (I'm a massive pedant too!). Clearly QUANTUM information is transferred between the pair, but crucially CAUSAL classical information is never transferred faster than the speed of light.

The reason for this: Measure one particle's state and you gain some information, but until you know what the state of the other particle was measured to be your information is useless. The only way to find out what the state of the other particle was is to have the information about its state transmitted classically.. slower than light.

The tl;dr is as before, entanglement can't be used to send useful (causal) information faster than the speed of light (as far as our current understand goes).

-