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[Proposal] Fix availability of Mining Foreman Mindlinks (EDIT: And Skimish too!)
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Jalxan
EVE University
Ivy League
#1 - 2013-02-13 20:20:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Jalxan
Greetings.

As I'm sure everyone well knows as this point, the availability of the Mining Foreman Mindlink has become ludicriously poor. I remember a time when MFM's were 50m. Now? 1.5 BILLION. I know that this is because A) They are no longer available in complexes, and B) There's a slim chance they'll drop in the special Shipyard Theft mission, and a slimmer chance you'll even get this mission.

Though this issue also applies to the other links, the MFM has become so costly, that I personally never use that implanted head anymore because it's too costly to risk to fly in space.

It should be a fairly simple fix, by either adding this link to more special missions, or to add them to rare complexes. Though it will still make them pricy, they won't cost nearly as much as they are now, which is more than pretty much every other implant currently in the market today. The prices of these mindlinks are dramatically hurting large-scale mining as a profession. Thank you.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-02-13 23:53:03 UTC
Supply and demand. Nothing wrong with it. People fly with far more than 1.5 bil in their heads all the time, in ships more fragile than an Orca, in space more dangerous than highsec, parked in grids less comfortable than next to a POS.

It's fine as is. Some incentive for people to do missions in Gallante space, hoping to get that particular storyline. Not everything in game has to be dirt cheap, especially something non combat related that's essentially a one time investment.
Jalxan
EVE University
Ivy League
#3 - 2013-02-16 21:37:37 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
Supply and demand. Nothing wrong with it. People fly with far more than 1.5 bil in their heads all the time, in ships more fragile than an Orca, in space more dangerous than highsec, parked in grids less comfortable than next to a POS.

It's fine as is. Some incentive for people to do missions in Gallante space, hoping to get that particular storyline. Not everything in game has to be dirt cheap, especially something non combat related that's essentially a one time investment.


I totally disagree for a simple reason: Why should miners be ripped off from good mindlinks, when PVPers get theirs for a much cheaper price? 50M back in the day was reasonable (with other links 5-10M). 1.5 billion makes it so rare, that no one will want it.

A side effect of making this link cheaper is lower ore prices, as mining fleets will mine faster and more efficiently.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-02-16 23:13:43 UTC
Jalxan wrote:
sabre906 wrote:
Supply and demand. Nothing wrong with it. People fly with far more than 1.5 bil in their heads all the time, in ships more fragile than an Orca, in space more dangerous than highsec, parked in grids less comfortable than next to a POS.

It's fine as is. Some incentive for people to do missions in Gallante space, hoping to get that particular storyline. Not everything in game has to be dirt cheap, especially something non combat related that's essentially a one time investment.


I totally disagree for a simple reason: Why should miners be ripped off from good mindlinks, when PVPers get theirs for a much cheaper price? 50M back in the day was reasonable (with other links 5-10M). 1.5 billion makes it so rare, that no one will want it.

A side effect of making this link cheaper is lower ore prices, as mining fleets will mine faster and more efficiently.


Miners don't need it and can't use it. It's for fleet booster when you run a mining fleet, supposedly in leadership position of an industrial corp. A 5% mining implant for individual miners cost 120 mil each. It's not unreasonable for you to spend 1.2 bil (Jita sell price, not 1.5 bil) just one time for a non-combat fleet booster, when your miners spend 120 mil for each implant in their head. You don't have to get it, not everyone is ready for leadership position.
Jalxan
EVE University
Ivy League
#5 - 2013-02-17 00:29:14 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
Miners don't need it and can't use it. It's for fleet booster when you run a mining fleet, supposedly in leadership position of an industrial corp. A 5% mining implant for individual miners cost 120 mil each. It's not unreasonable for you to spend 1.2 bil (Jita sell price, not 1.5 bil) just one time for a non-combat fleet booster, when your miners spend 120 mil for each implant in their head. You don't have to get it, not everyone is ready for leadership position.


Right, but let's not forget: PVP leadership boosters have it much, MUCH cheaper. Also let's not forget that I believe the Mining Foreman Mindlink is the most expensive implant on the market, period. And that is by a wide margin! Even more than those legendary snake sets.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2013-02-17 01:50:13 UTC  |  Edited by: sabre906
Jalxan wrote:
sabre906 wrote:
Miners don't need it and can't use it. It's for fleet booster when you run a mining fleet, supposedly in leadership position of an industrial corp. A 5% mining implant for individual miners cost 120 mil each. It's not unreasonable for you to spend 1.2 bil (Jita sell price, not 1.5 bil) just one time for a non-combat fleet booster, when your miners spend 120 mil for each implant in their head. You don't have to get it, not everyone is ready for leadership position.


Right, but let's not forget: PVP leadership boosters have it much, MUCH cheaper. Also let's not forget that I believe the Mining Foreman Mindlink is the most expensive implant on the market, period. And that is by a wide margin! Even more than those legendary snake sets.


Not true. Snake Omega is 1.5 bil, and that's for just one implant out of the whole set. Some cosmos implants cost upward of 3 bil, and that's for combat ships. The cosmos mining implant cost over 1.2 bil for 5% mining amount, and that's for individual miners, not 1 for the fleet. Relatively few people run cosmos missions, so supply is low.

But that aside, pvp mindlinks are cheaper because demand for mining mindlinks are larger in comparison. Supply is the same. Information warfare link in particular is dirt cheap, because information warfare is currently a joke. It's just market adjusting for itself.

Implants can cost a lot. Mining Foreman is far from being the most expensive one, especially since it's one for a whole fleet instead of per person. In the end, they're optional.

You can take comfort in knowing that for every mining fleet not running Mining Foreman, mineral prices is a bit higher. Regardless of whether this one time investment is worth it to you, you benefit from the resulting mineral prices.
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#7 - 2013-02-18 21:21:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Arduemont
As someone with an Orca alt that is maxed out except for the Mindlink, I have to say it really is just an issue with supply and demand like others have said. There is a lot of demand for those things because they are very very effective. PvPers do get implants that are similarly expensive, and miners have much cheaper implants available to boost their mining effectiveness if they really must have them(which they should, if they're worth their salt).

Don't get me wrong, I would love Mind Links to be cheaper, so my alt could buy one. But that's purely for selfish reasons. Besides my own want of the mind links I see no reason to make them more available. Miners need end game implants as well after all.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
Infinite Force
#8 - 2013-02-23 00:48:39 UTC
Jalxan wrote:
Greetings.

As I'm sure everyone well knows as this point, the availability of the Mining Foreman Mindlink has become ludicriously poor. I remember a time when MFM's were 50m. Now? 1.5 BILLION. I know that this is because A) They are no longer available in complexes, and B) There's a slim chance they'll drop in the special Shipyard Theft mission, and a slimmer chance you'll even get this mission.

Though this issue also applies to the other links, the MFM has become so costly, that I personally never use that implanted head anymore because it's too costly to risk to fly in space.

It should be a fairly simple fix, by either adding this link to more special missions, or to add them to rare complexes. Though it will still make them pricy, they won't cost nearly as much as they are now, which is more than pretty much every other implant currently in the market today. The prices of these mindlinks are dramatically hurting large-scale mining as a profession. Thank you.

The primary reason for the price increase is because CCP didn't increase the drop rate when they added a bunch of missions way-back-when. As a result, the price has steadily gone up.

+1 for actually understanding the issue.

-1 to CCP for borking up the loot tables (think faction tower bpc's anyone?)

The Supply / Demand argument is only valid if there was a real, steady supply of these.

HROLT CEO Live Free; Die Proud

http://tinyurl.com/95zmyzw - The only way to go!
Jalxan
EVE University
Ivy League
#9 - 2013-02-23 01:35:04 UTC
Infinite Force wrote:
The primary reason for the price increase is because CCP didn't increase the drop rate when they added a bunch of missions way-back-when. As a result, the price has steadily gone up.

+1 for actually understanding the issue.

-1 to CCP for borking up the loot tables (think faction tower bpc's anyone?)

The Supply / Demand argument is only valid if there was a real, steady supply of these.


This. :)
Jalxan
EVE University
Ivy League
#10 - 2013-03-13 20:43:30 UTC
I'd still like to see this happen. Any miner-type and leadership people want to vouch for this? :)
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#11 - 2013-03-13 21:33:48 UTC

I personally think mindlinks are broken... giving way too much potency to boosters....

I would much rather that the receiving end need the mindlink implant to receive extra warfare boost...

In other words...

The Claymore boosting Interdiction Manuevers II Link provides a 32ish% boost to Warp Disruptor Range...
Then the Arazu Pilot could pug in the mindlink to boost the Bonus from 32ish to 48ish%.

Encourage some synergy between booster and boostee to get max benefit....

After such a change, I'd support more "seeding" of mindlinks into the game... either via LP stores, plexes, or whatever...

until then, or until OGB is nerfed.... leave them scarce and rare....

Infinite Force
#12 - 2013-03-13 22:01:25 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

I personally think mindlinks are broken... giving way too much potency to boosters....

I would much rather that the receiving end need the mindlink implant to receive extra warfare boost...

In other words...

The Claymore boosting Interdiction Manuevers II Link provides a 32ish% boost to Warp Disruptor Range...
Then the Arazu Pilot could pug in the mindlink to boost the Bonus from 32ish to 48ish%.

Encourage some synergy between booster and boostee to get max benefit....

After such a change, I'd support more "seeding" of mindlinks into the game... either via LP stores, plexes, or whatever...

I disagree that ML's are broken given their current purpose and use. However, I agree that having the pilot using them would be an interesting turn-about, but the drop rate / availability would have to increase substantially to be used on a regular basis.


Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

until then, or until OGB is nerfed.... leave them scarce and rare....

Mindlinks are hardly 'scarce and rare' -- unless you consider only the mining mindlink.

If all mindlinks (the slot-10 variety) were upwards of 1.1 - 1.5b (e.g. same as the Mining Foreman ML), then yes, they'd be scarce and rare. Until then that last statement is patently false.

HROLT CEO Live Free; Die Proud

http://tinyurl.com/95zmyzw - The only way to go!
Draconus Lofwyr
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2013-03-13 23:34:36 UTC
CCP has stated that the whole boosting thing is being looked at as well as the leadership implants. That's as far as they have committed to at this point. The price in comparison to the other leadership implants is off kilter seeing as they all drop from the same mission. Yes, this is an issue of supply and demand, unfortunately, the problem is with the supply side and CCP nerfing the supply accidentally. IF CCP are not going to remove the implants (and that will cause a whole heap of bitching and gnashing of teeth) then they all should be seeded out through the LP stores (each main faction gives out their appropriate implant, and ORE for the mining implant, after moving some ORE stations to highsec.)

I understand why CCP hasn't done anything yet, why spend the time to fix one thing that may be addressed during another fix.
The biggest problem with the current price of this implant is, it is over the price of a return on investment.
True Sight
Deep Freeze Industries
#14 - 2013-03-17 15:09:51 UTC
As a character with Industrial Command 5, Capital Industrial 5 and Industrial Reconfig 5, I think it's fine, ultimately it is expensive yes, but as others have stated, there are pvp implants that are just as expensive and ultimately, Orca/Rorqual pilots really don't have as high a risk of getting podded as a guy in PVP implants.

Rorqual/Orca Pilot needs one, single implant, PvP pilots can boost their fitting/dmg/tank with half a dozen different implants of varying price, which they will loose and have to replace when they get podded, I think thats fair.