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No relativistic effects in EVE ?

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Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#41 - 2013-03-13 19:46:47 UTC
LOL56 wrote:
Warp drives don't cause you to get anywhere near the local light speed, they create a field (of totally BS space magic) that decreases the mass of the surrounding space (a 'depleted vacuum') resulting in a large negative density for the region around the ship (the 'warp tunnel'), thus raising light speed and allowing speeds of multiple AU/s without even approaching the local light speed.

The downside to to these drives is that when in standby mode (they cannot be turned off safely) the create a force akin to friction that drags the ship into a zero velocity relative to the local gravity well (usually the local star)

how are YOU to decide what is "BS space magic"? do you know how all physics work beyond what we consider the theoretical laws?
no?

then quit bashing on my immersion since you cant prove 100% it could never happen in real life with comparable technology.

yes i mad for no reason.
Kane Alvo
Doomheim
#42 - 2013-03-13 19:51:59 UTC
All this science talk make Hulk head hurt.

Caldari Militia  ☜★☞ Psychotic Monk for CSM8

Eurydia Vespasian
Storm Hunters
#43 - 2013-03-13 20:00:34 UTC
i guess it's too far a stretch to assume this is a space game set way in the future and perhaps technologies have been invented to casually deal with or circumvent these annoying and inconvenient "laws of physics."
BoSau Hotim
Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated
#44 - 2013-03-13 20:00:40 UTC
Thomas Hurt wrote:
Does anyone else find it extremely odd that this game uses laws of physics that are over 100 years old? There was this guy called Einstein, devs, not sure if you've heard of him? His work in physics was kind of a big deal, and any game that involves faster-than-light travel should take into account the causal paradoxes that would result from such technological possibilities; I should also be able to train skills faster than other people by constantly warping from one system to another (or rather, faster from the perspective of someone who is stationary).

Anyways, I just wanted to throw that out there. This really is a big issue to me; it would be like if Call of Duty had no gravity because "welp, too hard to model" and everyone just sort of floated around. You can't ignore the fundamental nature of reality and expect to present your game as internally consistent...



If you want reality.... then the first time you die quit the game... respawning isn't reality... or didn't you hear?

I'm not a carebear... I'm a SPACE BARBIE!  Now... where's Ken?
GreenSeed
#45 - 2013-03-13 20:01:54 UTC  |  Edited by: GreenSeed
you are asking for realism on a game where you can viciously murder someone with no provocation, get killed by the cops and do it all over again in 15 minutes, on the same spot, sometimes with the very same cops that responded to your first crime still standing there.

or how about the fact that if we add up the mass of all the items contained within jita 4-4, and expect realism, the station should collapse on itself and become a black hole?

maybe even more hilarious is the fact that an object of a couple hounded million tonnes can accelerate to speeds of upwards to 200m/s , collide with another object of the same characteristics, same speed but opposing vector and not having it all end in a 200 megaton explosion.
Thomas Hurt
Future Ventures
#46 - 2013-03-13 20:17:55 UTC
GreenSeed wrote:
you are asking for realism on a game where you can viciously murder someone with no provocation, get killed by the cops and do it all over again in 15 minutes, on the same spot, sometimes with the very same cops that responded to your first crime still standing there.

or how about the fact that if we add up the mass of all the items contained within jita 4-4, and expect realism, the station should collapse on itself and become a black hole?

maybe even more hilarious is the fact that an object of a couple hounded million tonnes can accelerate to speeds of upwards to 200m/s , collide with another object of the same characteristics, same speed but opposing vector and not having it all end in a 200 megaton explosion.


There is a big difference in believability between 'the police are more lax than I would expect them to be!" and "literally impossible combination of physical laws".
ROXGenghis
Perkone
Caldari State
#47 - 2013-03-13 20:30:56 UTC
Actually the game does tip its hat to relativistic effects: in the warp tunnel you can see a blue shift ahead of you and a red shift behind. :)
Yabba Addict
Perkone
Caldari State
#48 - 2013-03-13 20:45:07 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Kristoffon vonDrake wrote:
Imagine if the game was based on *gasp* magic how ridiculous it would be. I support the OP's initiative of aligning game physics and reality but he should start with games that are glaringly oblivious to reality and use such magic-basic shenanigans. OP, it is your moral duty to the world to register a WoW account and place this question on their forums.

New Healer Spells.

* Tourniquet
* Leeches
* Hacksaw
* Opium
* Pray to Correct God
* Leeches Type 2
To be fair, it would be much easier to balance:

For all the above: -100 HP per application.



Nah, praying should have a bit of a beneifial effect....you know, placebo effect, right?
Naes Mlahrend
Devil's Horsemen
#49 - 2013-03-13 20:49:56 UTC
Damn it OP, I thought I was really flying a spaceship in space. Thanks
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
#50 - 2013-03-13 20:51:08 UTC
Thomas Hurt wrote:
Does anyone else find it extremely odd that this game uses laws of physics that are over 100 years old? There was this guy called Einstein, devs, not sure if you've heard of him? His work in physics was kind of a big deal, and any game that involves faster-than-light travel should take into account the causal paradoxes that would result from such technological possibilities; I should also be able to train skills faster than other people by constantly warping from one system to another (or rather, faster from the perspective of someone who is stationary).

Anyways, I just wanted to throw that out there. This really is a big issue to me; it would be like if Call of Duty had no gravity because "welp, too hard to model" and everyone just sort of floated around. You can't ignore the fundamental nature of reality and expect to present your game as internally consistent...



How many years would you like to pass before you land?

And while school is a bit hazy after all these years, I don't remember Einstein ever publishing anything on the effects of "Faster than light travel"....


Signature removed - CCP Eterne
HellBent KillingSpree
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#51 - 2013-03-13 21:01:50 UTC
OP, the Star Trek convention is 4 doors to the right.

"Dont let your kids play on the weekends unless you like exposing your children to several thousand drunk and drug addicts" An unbiased Amazon players review
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#52 - 2013-03-13 21:12:01 UTC
Beekeeper Bob wrote:
And while school is a bit hazy after all these years, I don't remember Einstein ever publishing anything on the effects of "Faster than light travel"....
Oh, that's easy — just do the maths.

Since γ=1/√(1-v²/c²), any v>c means we start seeing stuff at complex-number x' and t' coordinates… so the only problem is figuring out exactly what the hell that means. P

I suppose that could solve the problem Douglas Adams presented with getting back at the gods: that no-one figured out how to shoot off nukes at right angles to reality.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#53 - 2013-03-13 21:17:21 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
ISD Suvetar wrote:
The Game physics are based on a fluidic model; which whilst not being a model of our universe, is much more intuitive to people who live around a planet and drive cars.


... and Species 8472.

ISD Suvetar wrote:
EVE would be far too complicated if it simulated true relativistic and newtonian physics,


Says you. Do we look like DUST bunnies?

ISD Suvetar wrote:
and that would certainly be impossible to manage in a way that lets the game run as many simultaneous connections as it does.


Right., it can't be done.

(Oh and the last pic is of a ship going directly from space into planetary atmosphere. Indy game, cost less to make that what CCP spends on pizza in a year.)

You realize that last pic is from a prototype engine that can handle only a few ships at a time right? Also it's been in development for years. Don't get me wrong, it's great at what it does... but is completely unable to function on a scale that is useful for EvE.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Domina Trix
McKNOBBLER DRINKING CLAN
#54 - 2013-03-13 21:23:45 UTC
Thomas Hurt wrote:
Does anyone else find it extremely odd that this game uses laws of physics that are over 100 years old? There was this guy called Einstein, devs, not sure if you've heard of him? His work in physics was kind of a big deal, and any game that involves faster-than-light travel should take into account the causal paradoxes that would result from such technological possibilities; I should also be able to train skills faster than other people by constantly warping from one system to another (or rather, faster from the perspective of someone who is stationary).

Anyways, I just wanted to throw that out there. This really is a big issue to me; it would be like if Call of Duty had no gravity because "welp, too hard to model" and everyone just sort of floated around. You can't ignore the fundamental nature of reality and expect to present your game as internally consistent...


If you look at the timeline of EVE you will see that it is set around 25 THOUSAND years into the future, by then Newtonian physics are probably treated with as much derision as the scientists that "proved" the Earth was flat or that automobiles should not go beyond 30 mph because our bodies would fall apart at those speeds.

Two of the defining characteristics of a carebear are wanting other players to play the way the carebear wants and whining on the forums for the game to change when they don't. Yet I see more threads on these forums from gankers than I do miners whining about wanting the game changed to suit them.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#55 - 2013-03-13 21:23:54 UTC
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
LOL56 wrote:
Warp drives don't cause you to get anywhere near the local light speed, they create a field (of totally BS space magic) that decreases the mass of the surrounding space (a 'depleted vacuum') resulting in a large negative density for the region around the ship (the 'warp tunnel'), thus raising light speed and allowing speeds of multiple AU/s without even approaching the local light speed.

The downside to to these drives is that when in standby mode (they cannot be turned off safely) the create a force akin to friction that drags the ship into a zero velocity relative to the local gravity well (usually the local star)

how are YOU to decide what is "BS space magic"? do you know how all physics work beyond what we consider the theoretical laws?
no?

then quit bashing on my immersion since you cant prove 100% it could never happen in real life with comparable technology.

yes i mad for no reason.


I'll just leave this here.

Current "BS Space Magic" that NASA is working on.

We know a fair amount more about how "warp bubbles" work than you might think. Blink

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#56 - 2013-03-13 21:27:14 UTC
…and anyway, I prefer the Futurama solution: since you can't go faster than the speed of light, increase the speed of light.
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
#57 - 2013-03-13 21:38:45 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
LOL56 wrote:
Warp drives don't cause you to get anywhere near the local light speed, they create a field (of totally BS space magic) that decreases the mass of the surrounding space (a 'depleted vacuum') resulting in a large negative density for the region around the ship (the 'warp tunnel'), thus raising light speed and allowing speeds of multiple AU/s without even approaching the local light speed.

The downside to to these drives is that when in standby mode (they cannot be turned off safely) the create a force akin to friction that drags the ship into a zero velocity relative to the local gravity well (usually the local star)

how are YOU to decide what is "BS space magic"? do you know how all physics work beyond what we consider the theoretical laws?
no?

then quit bashing on my immersion since you cant prove 100% it could never happen in real life with comparable technology.

yes i mad for no reason.


I'll just leave this here.

Current "BS Space Magic" that NASA is working on.

We know a fair amount more about how "warp bubbles" work than you might think. Blink




Sounds great on paper, lets hope they don't send the planet off on a little trip......

Signature removed - CCP Eterne
Yabba Addict
Perkone
Caldari State
#58 - 2013-03-13 21:50:47 UTC
Beekeeper Bob wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
LOL56 wrote:
Warp drives don't cause you to get anywhere near the local light speed, they create a field (of totally BS space magic) that decreases the mass of the surrounding space (a 'depleted vacuum') resulting in a large negative density for the region around the ship (the 'warp tunnel'), thus raising light speed and allowing speeds of multiple AU/s without even approaching the local light speed.

The downside to to these drives is that when in standby mode (they cannot be turned off safely) the create a force akin to friction that drags the ship into a zero velocity relative to the local gravity well (usually the local star)

how are YOU to decide what is "BS space magic"? do you know how all physics work beyond what we consider the theoretical laws?
no?

then quit bashing on my immersion since you cant prove 100% it could never happen in real life with comparable technology.

yes i mad for no reason.


I'll just leave this here.

Current "BS Space Magic" that NASA is working on.

We know a fair amount more about how "warp bubbles" work than you might think. Blink




Sounds great on paper, lets hope they don't send the planet off on a little trip......



If i was a betting man I'd say you thought the LHC would create a black hole...
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
#59 - 2013-03-13 22:01:15 UTC
Yabba Addict wrote:
Beekeeper Bob wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
LOL56 wrote:
Warp drives don't cause you to get anywhere near the local light speed, they create a field (of totally BS space magic) that decreases the mass of the surrounding space (a 'depleted vacuum') resulting in a large negative density for the region around the ship (the 'warp tunnel'), thus raising light speed and allowing speeds of multiple AU/s without even approaching the local light speed.

The downside to to these drives is that when in standby mode (they cannot be turned off safely) the create a force akin to friction that drags the ship into a zero velocity relative to the local gravity well (usually the local star)

how are YOU to decide what is "BS space magic"? do you know how all physics work beyond what we consider the theoretical laws?
no?

then quit bashing on my immersion since you cant prove 100% it could never happen in real life with comparable technology.

yes i mad for no reason.


I'll just leave this here.

Current "BS Space Magic" that NASA is working on.

We know a fair amount more about how "warp bubbles" work than you might think. Blink




Sounds great on paper, lets hope they don't send the planet off on a little trip......



If i was a betting man I'd say you thought the LHC would create a black hole...



That fact that you believe everything you read, and don't apply critical thinking skills to the information.....worries me. Shocked


Signature removed - CCP Eterne
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#60 - 2013-03-13 22:08:58 UTC
eve has physics?

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value