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No relativistic effects in EVE ?

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Christopher AET
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2013-03-13 17:39:25 UTC
Kerbal space program......nuff said

I drain ducks of their moisture for sustenance.
Josef Djugashvilis
#22 - 2013-03-13 17:41:21 UTC
Thomas Hurt wrote:
Does anyone else find it extremely odd that this game uses laws of physics that are over 100 years old? There was this guy called Einstein, devs, not sure if you've heard of him? His work in physics was kind of a big deal, and any game that involves faster-than-light travel should take into account the causal paradoxes that would result from such technological possibilities; I should also be able to train skills faster than other people by constantly warping from one system to another (or rather, faster from the perspective of someone who is stationary).

Anyways, I just wanted to throw that out there. This really is a big issue to me; it would be like if Call of Duty had no gravity because "welp, too hard to model" and everyone just sort of floated around. You can't ignore the fundamental nature of reality and expect to present your game as internally consistent...


Einstein physics, are real physics

Eve Online physics, are made up for fun physics.

Deal with it.

This is not a signature.
ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#23 - 2013-03-13 17:43:26 UTC
Andski wrote:
ISD Suvetar wrote:
Hi,

The Game physics are based on a fluidic model; which whilst not being a model of our universe, is much more intuitive to people who live around a planet and drive cars.

EVE would be far too complicated if it simulated true relativistic and newtonian physics, and that would certainly be impossible to manage in a way that lets the game run as many simultaneous connections as it does.

Now, I would like to remind people to post constructively, please!


tl;dr: "new eden is an ocean"


All joking aside, that's not a bad analogy really :)

[b]ISD Suvetar Captain/Commando Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department[/b]
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#24 - 2013-03-13 17:46:34 UTC
Let us know how you plan on simulating how a ship's mass, length, and time dilation become imaginary at speeds above c.
iskflakes
#25 - 2013-03-13 17:47:45 UTC
EVE physics is not realistic as everybody else has already said. It's a shame the "fluid" nonsense doesn't make any sense either.

The most annoying thing to me is how wrecks stop moving when you kill something that was moving. The max range on guns is also fairly ridiculous.

-
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#26 - 2013-03-13 17:52:48 UTC
ISD Suvetar wrote:
The Game physics are based on a fluidic model; which whilst not being a model of our universe, is much more intuitive to people who live around a planet and drive cars.


... and Species 8472.

ISD Suvetar wrote:
EVE would be far too complicated if it simulated true relativistic and newtonian physics,


Says you. Do we look like DUST bunnies?

ISD Suvetar wrote:
and that would certainly be impossible to manage in a way that lets the game run as many simultaneous connections as it does.


Right., it can't be done.

(Oh and the last pic is of a ship going directly from space into planetary atmosphere. Indy game, cost less to make that what CCP spends on pizza in a year.)

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0
Notorious Fellon
#27 - 2013-03-13 17:55:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Notorious Fellon
Did you (OP) actually expect them to model real time dilation when one player moves faster than light?

Please explain to me how we would force aging on the other players each time you enter warp, in order to keep things "real".


Now, if you are referring to more realistic space ship flight and controls--well, that would be easy as long as you give up having more than 5,000 players per "world". That is the trade off.

Crime, it is not a "career", it is a lifestyle.
Felicity Love
Doomheim
#28 - 2013-03-13 17:56:51 UTC
What's this relatavistic crap ? I fold space every day...and that Einstein fellow was only a clerk anyway. What do clerks know ? Twaddle, I say ! Twaddle !

Blink

"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )
Adam Junior
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2013-03-13 18:00:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Adam Junior
Ships in EVE don't approach relativistic speeds, the fastest you can go is 10^3 m/s -ish.

The warp drive (as should really be evident from it's name) contracts space so the distance between A (your ship) and B (point ahead of your ship) much shortert, allowing you to traverse it at sublight speeds within the bubble.

Your ship never goes absolutely superluminal within the bubble, the warp drive is lets you circumvent the rules not break them.
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog
B.L.U.E L.A.S.E.R.
#30 - 2013-03-13 18:01:37 UTC
Notorious Fellon wrote:
Did you (OP) actually expect them to model real time dilation when one player moves faster than light?


No, in OP's world, nobody can travel faster than light, so that's not a concern. So it's going to take around 8-10 minutes minimum to travel one AU (a lot longer if you haven't already accelerated to as close to the speed of light as your ship allows . . . and then that much longer to slow back down to a speed that'll allow you to dock).

Time dilation as sub-light speeds would have to be modeled, however, meaning that the tradeoff for actually playing the game (flying around) is a slower training queue.

I am not an alt of Chribba.
Notorious Fellon
#31 - 2013-03-13 18:04:33 UTC
Adam Junior wrote:
Ships in EVE don't approach relativistic speeds, the fastest you can go is 10^3 m/s -ish.

The warp drive (as should really be evident from it's name) contracts space so the distance between A (your ship) and B (point ahead of your ship) much shortert, allowing you to traverse it at sublight speeds within the bubble.

Your ship never goes absolutely superluminal within the bubble, the warp drive is lets you circumvent the rules not break them.



Excellent point.

Crime, it is not a "career", it is a lifestyle.
Pantiy
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2013-03-13 18:07:06 UTC
so if all i do is warp around i can be in a titan in a week? did i do that right?
ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#33 - 2013-03-13 18:08:30 UTC
iskflakes wrote:
EVE physics is not realistic as everybody else has already said. It's a shame the "fluid" nonsense doesn't make any sense either.

The most annoying thing to me is how wrecks stop moving when you kill something that was moving. The max range on guns is also fairly ridiculous.


No it doesn't make any sense in a scientific bent; but it *does* make EVE a fun game; which I believe is the main point ?

[b]ISD Suvetar Captain/Commando Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department[/b]
ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#34 - 2013-03-13 18:10:29 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
ISD Suvetar wrote:
The Game physics are based on a fluidic model; which whilst not being a model of our universe, is much more intuitive to people who live around a planet and drive cars.


... and Species 8472.

ISD Suvetar wrote:
EVE would be far too complicated if it simulated true relativistic and newtonian physics,


Says you. Do we look like DUST bunnies?

ISD Suvetar wrote:
and that would certainly be impossible to manage in a way that lets the game run as many simultaneous connections as it does.


Right., it can't be done.

(Oh and the last pic is of a ship going directly from space into planetary atmosphere. Indy game, cost less to make that what CCP spends on pizza in a year.)


I think you're stretching my point a bit there :)

Either way it's not an argument; it's how it is currently and I'm simply giving the reasons that have been given before by CCP developers.

[b]ISD Suvetar Captain/Commando Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department[/b]
Alara IonStorm
#35 - 2013-03-13 18:11:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Pantiy wrote:
so if all i do is warp around i can be in a titan in a week? did i do that right?

You should get to the Titan at the same amount of time, just by then Super Titan's and Ultra Titans will exist and everyone will have trained them.
Rico Minali
Sons Of 0din
Commonwealth Vanguard
#36 - 2013-03-13 18:38:08 UTC
Hint, if you dont know much physics best tto not try discussing it.

But no, eve doesnt use much in the way of physics beyond the scifi spectrum.

Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Felicity Love
Doomheim
#37 - 2013-03-13 18:41:35 UTC
Primary This Rifter wrote:
Let us know how you plan on simulating how a ship's mass, length, and time dilation become imaginary at speeds above c.


My pretend spaceship flies faster than your pretend spaceship because of the big orange and red "go faster" flames painted on the hull ?
Blink

"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#38 - 2013-03-13 19:08:17 UTC
Felicity Love wrote:
Primary This Rifter wrote:
Let us know how you plan on simulating how a ship's mass, length, and time dilation become imaginary at speeds above c.


My pretend spaceship flies faster than your pretend spaceship because of the big orange and red "go faster" flames painted on the hull ?
Blink


Flames are a myth. What you really need are red stripes.
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#39 - 2013-03-13 19:16:18 UTC
Pantiy wrote:
so if all i do is warp around i can be in a titan in a week? did i do that right?



You have it exactly backwards.



☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#40 - 2013-03-13 19:18:59 UTC
Thomas Hurt wrote:
Does anyone else find it extremely odd that this game uses laws of physics that are over 100 years old? There was this guy called Einstein, devs, not sure if you've heard of him? His work in physics was kind of a big deal, and any game that involves faster-than-light travel should take into account the causal paradoxes that would result from such technological possibilities; I should also be able to train skills faster than other people by constantly warping from one system to another (or rather, faster from the perspective of someone who is stationary).

Anyways, I just wanted to throw that out there. This really is a big issue to me; it would be like if Call of Duty had no gravity because "welp, too hard to model" and everyone just sort of floated around. You can't ignore the fundamental nature of reality and expect to present your game as internally consistent...

Troll aside, warp bubbles aren't affected by standard physics in the way you are thinking... just ask NASA (as they are currently working on creating their own). Warp bubbles solve a lot of very inconvienient problems with the passage of time near light speed, as well as accelleration and decelleration.

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