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Rail Tengu
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Julian Darklight
Dog Soldier Collective
#1 - 2013-03-13 00:31:03 UTC
I have very high gunnery skills (over 9.5 million). I have high skills in Caldari ships (lvl5 BS for example) and am about to have Caldari cruiser lvl5 at which point I will only have the 1x skills to train for the Tengu. Unfortunately my missile skills are low (3.4 million).

In the past I have used dual 150mm rails, dual 250mm rails, to great effectiveness. They do not deal the alpha damage of the larger rails but they fire much faster and have better tracking and when used with anti-matter ammo deal decent damage at good ranges, especially with the range bonuses of many Caldari ships.

I was considering building a dual 150mm rail fit Tengu. I know many of you will not like the idea but I believe that with my skills I can make it a viable Fit. I would like to hear all opinions though before I spend the cash on the idea. All opinions, even those I may not initially like.
Arazel Chainfire
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-03-13 01:01:23 UTC
I know that this isn't really what you want to hear, but if you want a tengu, use missiles.

Now, before you explode, hear me out. A tengu fit with 6 heavy missile launcher 2's, using CN scourge missiles does 542 dps with an optimal range of 94km. This is after all the current changes, and on an all T2 fit - you can of course pimp it for further performance. This will hit for full damage to all cruiser and larger sized ships. Putting on rigor/flare rigs, and you will be able to hit frigates for near full damage.

Lets compare this to a railgun tengu. The comparison isn't really fair. If you were to fit 250mm railguns, use CN antimatter, and use 4 magstabs, the best you can manage out of a railgun tengu is 453 dps - at 36+15km. Note that to get 6 turrets, you have to have the power core multiplier subsystem, which does leave you significant leftover powergrid after fitting this - and depending upon your other subsystems, it also leaves you with significant CPU as well.

So lets put on these dual 150's that you desire. Now you have 404 damage with CN antimatter and 4 magstabs, with an optimal of 18+7.5km. To compare, a blaster tengu with null and no tracking mods gets 533dps at 13+8.8 So if you are trying to engage within point range, you would do better off to use blasters and some tracking mods. Or use HAM's, be able to hit anything less than 30km with up to 754dps (using just T2).

So sure, you can go ahead and put together a railgun tengu. Just keep in mind that the hybrid fit tengu is called the faulgu for a reason - and it isn't really due to heavy missile dominance either. Its more that medium railguns suck and the tengu gets dismal bonuses to them in addition. If you want to take advantage of your gunnery skills, use blasters - those are actually somewhat decent.

-Arazel
Julian Darklight
Dog Soldier Collective
#3 - 2013-03-13 01:07:28 UTC
Thanks for your advice. And I never explode unless someone is bashing my ideas without any facts or research behind them. In other words, being and ignorant f**k. You obviously were not an ignorant ****. I will consider this. But my dismal missile skills might convince me to train for another type of ship. Lets hear some more opinions. I would do more research but for the next week I am away from home and my comp so takin time to learn as much as possible.
Orlacc
#4 - 2013-03-13 05:47:52 UTC
Let us know.

"Measure Twice, Cut Once."
Jardan D'Arth
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2013-03-13 14:38:01 UTC
If you like the Tengu, I'd say just go ahead & train up your heavy missiles. Especially if you focus on one type (like just heavy's) it doesn't seem that training up missiles takes nearly as long as gunnery training anyway. If you've already focused on shields over armor in your defensive training this is probably the best way to go for you. Gallente have some good hybrid ships, but you need solid armor tanking & drone skills to make them shine.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2013-03-13 14:50:46 UTC
If you can fit tech 2 heavy missiles and have the supports to at least 4 it will be better than rails

Art of Explosions
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#7 - 2013-03-13 15:07:20 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
If you can fit tech 2 heavy missiles and have the supports to at least 4 it will be better than rails





He wants one rails Tengu, let it be.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#8 - 2013-03-13 15:19:25 UTC
NO.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#9 - 2013-03-13 15:38:41 UTC
So HMLs are still insanely OP compared to other medium LR weapon systems? Well damn, that was surprising after all the bear whine.

.
Kodama Ikari
Thragon
#10 - 2013-03-13 16:00:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Kodama Ikari
My gallente character has way higher gunnery skills and less missile skills than you and i would not even consider fitting guns on it. All you need is t2 heavies (hams are good too) and lvl 4 supports to be better. lvl 5 supports just makes it that much better.

Some first-hand PI tips
Ginger Barbarella
#11 - 2013-03-13 16:06:23 UTC
Personally I've been thinking about an arty Tengu...

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Julian Darklight
Dog Soldier Collective
#12 - 2013-03-13 16:44:37 UTC
Well, the general consensus seems to be Heavies or HMLs. So that is probably what I will go for even though I really dont care for missles that much. Most of my missles support skills are lvl3 or 4 so it should not be that bad.
Cephelange du'Krevviq
Gildinous Vangaurd
The Initiative.
#13 - 2013-03-13 17:57:27 UTC
I have good gunnery skills, as well; comparing a rail fit Tengu in EFT versus a HM or HAM fit Tengu will easily show you the DPS difference. I use a HAM fit, myself, and even though I have to get closer than with HMs, the DPS is worth it.

"I am a leaf on the...ah, frak it!"
Julian Darklight
Dog Soldier Collective
#14 - 2013-03-13 18:13:48 UTC
I have yet to get EFT. Will try to download it soon, or however it works
Lord Fudo
Doomheim
#15 - 2013-03-13 18:25:47 UTC
What are you wanting to use the tengu for? PvP or PvE?
Alexa Coates
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2013-03-13 20:15:14 UTC
hopefully a rail tengu will be properly usable when ccp gets around to redoing t3's, because right now, everyone uses the same cookie cutter fits, with so many subs never being used because they're "useless", like the drone proteus and rail tengu.

That's a Templar, an Amarr fighter used by carriers.
Lenier Chenal
Offensive Upholder
#17 - 2013-03-13 20:40:58 UTC
Alexa Coates wrote:
hopefully a rail tengu will be properly usable when ccp gets around to redoing t3's, because right now, everyone uses the same cookie cutter fits, with so many subs never being used because they're "useless", like the drone proteus and rail tengu.


2-3 x RR Drone prot with 5 sentries in a C4 makes me hard
Dato Koppla
Neuronix
#18 - 2013-03-14 00:33:56 UTC
I thought Drone Proteus can only field 4 Sentries?
Sal Landry
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#19 - 2013-03-14 00:58:41 UTC
Roime wrote:
So HMLs are still insanely OP compared to other medium LR weapon systems? Well damn, that was surprising after all the bear whine.


It's the Accelerated Ejection Bay compared to whatever-the-hybrid-sub-is-called and you know it.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2013-03-14 01:31:11 UTC
Dato Koppla wrote:
I thought Drone Proteus can only field 4 Sentries?


you would be correct sir.

myrmidon can do the same thing at a fraction of the cost now

Art of Explosions
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