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The difference between a carebear and an EVE industrialist

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Isara Shiraishi
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2013-03-13 07:04:00 UTC
That's why I have started playing this game.
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#22 - 2013-03-13 07:43:53 UTC
Here's the real scenario: Ten Catalysts enter the belt, intend to pop some Macks. There are 5 Carebears and 1 industrialist. Having scanned the ships, the Catalysts now have the choice between popping the Industrialist and 2 Carebears or popping 5 Carebears.

Thus 5 Carebears go down in flames and the Industrialist keeps on mining, now with a CONCORD fleet in the belt to keep more Catalysts away.

Why you ask? Simple. The Carebears are max yield fitted and have next to no tank while the industrialist has a solid buffer fitted and has put yield secondary.

Besides, I wouldn't be using a Mack anyway, as it doesn't do much better than the Retriever. Much cheaper and still tanked enough worth two Carebear Macks.

Sovereignty and Population

New Mining Mechanics
Kane Alvo
Doomheim
#23 - 2013-03-13 08:16:53 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
Finally, she looks at the third question.

...there seems to be an epidemic of it. She considers the potential to profit from this increased demand for Catalysts, Small Neutron Blaster I's, Magnetic Stabilizer I's, Small Hybrid Burst Aerators, Warp Scrambler I's, Warp Disruptor I's and looks into what is involved in producing those.


In other words, they are starting to band together make good on their threat to stop producing the stuff you're ganking them with.

That would be the ultimate retribution in all of this. For the price of a fitted Catalyst to skyrocket out of control to the point where it's no longer viable to use it as a suicide ganking ship, and the miners win, having never fired a shot.

Caldari Militia  ☜★☞ Psychotic Monk for CSM8

Alara IonStorm
#24 - 2013-03-13 08:42:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Kane Alvo wrote:

In other words, they are starting to band together make good on their threat to stop producing the stuff you're ganking them with.

That would be the ultimate retribution in all of this. For the price of a fitted Catalyst to skyrocket out of control to the point where it's no longer viable to use it as a suicide ganking ship, and the miners win, having never fired a shot.

Except that Catalyst production, small rig production and T1 module production are incredibly easy while Meta goods are plentiful. Simply stated that even if gankers dedicate an alt to said production they can get a wealth of ships at only a small mark up compared to industrialist making a profit the correct course is pretty clear.

To a carebear the attacks are personal and to an industrialist the attacks are economic. Profiting is literally the best possible outcome of a new threat. War Profiteering is not a new thing and you can find examples in every war ever. To expect an abundance of morals for fiction characters to grow in EVE of all places when humanity hasn't been able to do with with human life on the line is well ridiculous.

The best way for miners to win is to play the economic game and either evade, tank enough to make it none profitable, marginalize loses effect on your business or make a profit. Dreams of Hiring Merc's or economically punishing your enemies may satisfy an emotional craving but the all mighty bottom line is what dictates the real winner and revenge is not cheap.
flakeys
Doomheim
#25 - 2013-03-13 09:47:22 UTC
Theangryhobo wrote:
Industrialist Ajidica wrote:
As an Industrialist I don't undock. Ever.


Marketing Online



Something you won't understand but for some like me marketing online is more exciting then blobbing online.

You enjoy your 'Target X ... fi o wait allrady down target Y ...fi o wait ...' , while i enjoy dumping high stocks for low price on competitors.

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Sarah Schneider
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2013-03-13 09:47:25 UTC
NightCrawler 85 wrote:
Carebear checking in!

I dont even really understand why this is a discussion... Everyone (should) knows that there are really no "set" terms on a player, weather its carebear, pirate, empire hugger, 0.0 dweller or merc. The more people you ask what the different term "means" the more different answers you will get.

As an example.
Quite recently my corp got accused of being "naughty pirates". Why? Because we did not approve of someone coming into the WH we occupy and doing the sites. In my own opinion thats not piracy, thats defending your terretory and resourses. But for the person who got blown up, we are pirates. And believe me this is not the first time i have heard this one Lol

So why do i call my self a carebear? Because i dont enjoy the idea of destroying someone elses ship/pixels.
This does not mean that no carebears likes to PVP, and it does not mean that there is no truth to the...ideas people have about what makes someone a carebear. But i would like to think that people would accept that just because one person they met acted like this, it does not mean that everyone else that has the same "title" thinks or feels the same way.

You're not a carebear. A carebear forgot that this is a sandbox MMO, believes this is their game, and no one can intervene with what they're doing, and complain to the devs when someone does.

"I'd rather have other players get shot by other players than not interacting with others" -CCP Soundwave
kes88
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2013-03-13 09:57:36 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
Two people - a carebear and an EVE industralist - are mining in Mackinaws in high security space.


I was really hoping this was the start of a joke too...

Personally, I was under the impression that carebears prefer PVE to PVP and industrialists made stuff. I don't think you can narrow it down more than that nor predict personality from it.

You haven't defined a carebear and an industrialist, you've just stated two different responses to the same situation occuring. I agree that it would be beneficial for players (particularly new players) to take the latter view when they get popped whilst mining but I don't think it's as simple as the OP says.
T'Laar Bok
#28 - 2013-03-13 10:01:53 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
Two people - a carebear and an EVE industralist - are mining in Mackinaws in high security space. Suddenly a fleet of ten Catalysts appears, piloted by outlaws. Each Mackinaw is targetted by five of them, pointed before they can warp out, and reduced to scrap metal. CONCORD arrives on the scene and gives the Catalysts a red card, blowing all of them to smithereens.



Happens to me all the time.


Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
The carebear returns from their AFK



The only time I'm AFK is to make coffee and weewee


Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
He complains loudly in local chat about the unfair treatment, sits in his pod in the local station, file GM petitions accusing the Catalyst pilots of cheating and logs off and posts a forum rant about being harrassed.


Never done that because thats Eve.

Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
Sometimes he also does one of the following:
- Begs in local
- Threatens to get his nullsec main character to wardec the Catalyst pilots
- Threatens real life consequences against the Catalyst pilots or makes derogatory comments about the players involved (not the characters but the players)
- Gets into another Mackinaw and starts mining in the same place again
- Complains 'That ship was everything I owned'.
.


Again never done that.

Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
lost a 250m Mack fit


Your numbers are a little off. My Mack fits are closer to 500-800m.

Your post is what is conceived by the common riffraff and you as stereotypical carebear behavior and yet in a few lines I proved you incorrect in your assumptions. Stop trying to fit everyone in a box that is to your liking.

The rest TL;DR.

Amphetimines are your friend.

http://eveboard.com/pilot/T'Laar_Bok
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2013-03-13 10:02:00 UTC
Kane Alvo wrote:
In other words, they are starting to band together make good on their threat to stop producing the stuff you're ganking them with.

That would be the ultimate retribution in all of this. For the price of a fitted Catalyst to skyrocket out of control to the point where it's no longer viable to use it as a suicide ganking ship, and the miners win, having never fired a shot.

Some gankers have indy alts. (the majority of gankers are alts anyway) Many pvpers have indy alts. Some indy players have ganker alts. Most intelligent indy players choose to produce the most valuable item. Many miners don't produce. Some miners and indy players view other miners and indy players as their competition - and they are.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#30 - 2013-03-13 10:04:50 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
Kane Alvo wrote:
In other words, they are starting to band together make good on their threat to stop producing the stuff you're ganking them with.

That would be the ultimate retribution in all of this. For the price of a fitted Catalyst to skyrocket out of control to the point where it's no longer viable to use it as a suicide ganking ship, and the miners win, having never fired a shot.

Some gankers have indy alts. (the majority of gankers are alts anyway) Many pvpers have indy alts. Some indy players have ganker alts. Most intelligent indy players choose to produce the most valuable item. Many miners don't produce. Some miners and indy players view other miners and indy players as their competition - and they are.


Yes. Every time a hauler carrying armor plates goes bada-boom, the industrialist in me rejoices. Someone else's loss of a freighter and a load of stock is an opportunity.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#31 - 2013-03-13 10:05:40 UTC
Friggz wrote:
An industrialist doesn't like pvp


An EVE industrialist is just somebody who engages in the industrial aspects of the game. They may or may not engage in other aspects of the game, including PvP. I know plenty of industrialists (unless supercapital builders are suddenly not "industrialists") who engage in PvP regularly.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#32 - 2013-03-13 10:07:00 UTC
T'Laar Bok wrote:
Your post is what is conceived by the common riffraff and you as stereotypical carebear behavior and yet in a few lines I proved you incorrect in your assumptions. Stop trying to fit everyone in a box that is to your liking.

The rest TL;DR.


you completely missed the point of the OP.
Frying Doom
#33 - 2013-03-13 10:11:18 UTC
Andski wrote:
Friggz wrote:
An industrialist doesn't like pvp


An EVE industrialist is just somebody who engages in the industrial aspects of the game. They may or may not engage in other aspects of the game, including PvP. I know plenty of industrialists (unless supercapital builders are suddenly not "industrialists") who engage in PvP regularly.

Of course they are not Industrialists.

Don't you read the forums, they are just risk free slackers choosing to do nothing but build supers in their super comfy chairs. Lol

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Rico Minali
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2013-03-13 10:52:03 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Friggz wrote:
To me a much shorter explanation would be this:

A carebear doesn't like pvp and also feels they should be completely immune to it if they so choose and would perfer to only engage in activites with no risk.

An industrialist doesn't like pvp but recognizes it is a part of EvE. They weigh the pros and cons and take risks they believe will ultimately benefit them in the long run.



That was far easier to read and I would say a fair assessment.

Also to the OP - She? Women dont exist on the intertubes. They are fat men wearing ladies pants pretending to be girls *Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal

Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Domina Trix
McKNOBBLER DRINKING CLAN
#35 - 2013-03-13 11:00:15 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
T'Laar Bok wrote:
Your post is what is conceived by the common riffraff and you as stereotypical carebear behavior and yet in a few lines I proved you incorrect in your assumptions. Stop trying to fit everyone in a box that is to your liking.

The rest TL;DR.


you completely missed the point of the OP.


Actually I believe YOU completely missed the point of the OP. S/he proposed no discussion and is simply trolling for another miner/ganker/hisec/null flamefest thread now that the other ones have fallen from the front page using stereotypes.

Two of the defining characteristics of a carebear are wanting other players to play the way the carebear wants and whining on the forums for the game to change when they don't. Yet I see more threads on these forums from gankers than I do miners whining about wanting the game changed to suit them.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#36 - 2013-03-13 11:38:32 UTC
Domina Trix wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
T'Laar Bok wrote:
Your post is what is conceived by the common riffraff and you as stereotypical carebear behavior and yet in a few lines I proved you incorrect in your assumptions. Stop trying to fit everyone in a box that is to your liking.

The rest TL;DR.


you completely missed the point of the OP.


Actually I believe YOU completely missed the point of the OP. S/he proposed no discussion and is simply trolling for another miner/ganker/hisec/null flamefest thread now that the other ones have fallen from the front page using stereotypes.

Actually, I think YOU completely missed the point of the OP. They introduced two characters whose ingame activites are similar but who possess differing viewpoints on the game and have who have different reactions to when a part of the game or playstyle they do not usually participate in suddenly directly effects themselves. I see you attemping to dismiss their post as 'trolling' and their example characters as 'stereotypes' with no supporting argument of your own.

Here's a few examples of the attitude of people like the example 'carebear' character.
Dave Stark
#37 - 2013-03-13 11:41:18 UTC
Abrazzar wrote:
Besides, I wouldn't be using a Mack anyway, as it doesn't do much better than the Retriever. Much cheaper and still tanked enough worth two Carebear Macks.


max yield retriever, you'll still get ignored because macks pad killboards better than rets do.
Silvara Nocturn
Nocturn Industries
#38 - 2013-03-13 11:45:13 UTC
There's mostly one type of person ranting with endless threads on these forums and it ain't the carebears.
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2013-03-13 11:52:56 UTC
Arduemont wrote:
Someone who really knew what they were doing wouldn't need to be mining in the first place, but if they did they would have defensive rigs, a damage control, an invuln and a small shield booster running permanently and would have laughed at the suicide gankers after they failed.
When I was very young, I mined in a Procurer. I got my money back from mining in less than 1 1/2 hours.

I never got ganked, but would have laughed if someone had.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#40 - 2013-03-13 11:59:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:
Arduemont wrote:
Someone who really knew what they were doing wouldn't need to be mining in the first place, but if they did they would have defensive rigs, a damage control, an invuln and a small shield booster running permanently and would have laughed at the suicide gankers after they failed.
When I was very young, I mined in a Procurer. I got my money back from mining in less than 1 1/2 hours.

I never got ganked, but would have laughed if someone had.


It's a damn good ship to mine in, cheap to replace, tanks like a monster, mines as much as a Retriever, and the ore bay is just the right size that you can't go completely AFK. Gankers will tend to leave you alone in a Procuror or Skiff, too much effort and too much cost in highsec, too likely to be bait in lowsec.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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