These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Skill Discussions

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

New/clueless player humbly requesting advice

Author
Hauer Outamon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-03-12 13:54:23 UTC
First off, here's my eveboard:

http://eveboard.com/pilot/Hauer_Outamon

So anyways, I feel like doing a different thing every week or so, which left my skills pretty spread out and unfocused. Fortunately, I did manage to stay away from gunnery and missile skills.

I'm planning on applying to a null-sec corp soon and moving out of high-sec, but I'm concerned my skills will hinder my efforts. Before I apply, what specific skills should I train as a miner preparing for a null-sec environment? Did I mess up my skill tree so badly that I'm likely to run into problems?

Thanks so much for your responses and help!

Perramas
DreddNaut
#2 - 2013-03-12 14:18:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Perramas
I would stop training Deep Core Mining to level 5, You really do not need it past level 2. As far as what to train I will leave that advice to others as I have very little experience in todays 0.0 sov space.

Edit- When in doubt train these skills to level 5 as you will use them with any ship you fly.

Engineering - Power Core
Electronics - CPU
Energy Management - Capacitor Capacity.
Energy Systems Operation - Capacitor Recharge
Energy Grid Upgrades - to reduce the CPU requirements of installing power modules.
Mechanic - Hull Strength.
Navigation - Ship Velocity
Shield Management - Shield Capacity.
Shield Operation - Shield Recharge
Spaceship Command - Improved Ship Agility

Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, small minds discuss people- Eleanor Roosevelt

Hauer Outamon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3 - 2013-03-12 14:32:58 UTC
Thanks for the response, Perramas.

I'll get right on to training those core skills. Also - why only level 2? I don't want the 100% damage cloud avoidance?

Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2013-03-12 14:43:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Antillie Sa'Kan
It is my understanding that the range of the Modulated Deep Core Strip Miner II is larger than the radius of the damage cloud.

IE: you can park your ship far enough away from the rock that the cloud won't affect you while you mine it. So training Deep Core Mining past level 2 is kinda pointless.

On the topic of what to train for, T2 mining crystals aren't a bad idea and Evasive Maneuvering is always nice to have maxed out. Those T2 crystals do make a difference and barges need all the agility they can get if you are going to use them in null. In fact if you are going to use a Hulk or Machinaw in null space then I would add Tactical Shield Manipulation 4 and Shield Compensation 4 to the list of core skills so you can fit a T2 shield tank.

Some basic probing skills are also useful for null mining so you can scan down hidden belts if the system you are in has the appropriate upgrades. If you are really dedicated to mining getting better with mining drones is an idea and working towards an Orca might be a reasonable long term goal.
Hauer Outamon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5 - 2013-03-12 14:45:42 UTC
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:
It is my understanding that the range of the Modulated Deep Core Strip Miner II is longer than the radius of the damage cloud.

IE: you can park your ship far enough away from the rock that the cloud won't affect you while you mine it. So training Deep Core Mining past level 2 is kinda pointless.


Damn. Makes me wonder what else I'm missing...

Thanks for the info though, will stop training promptly!
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2013-03-12 15:07:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Antillie Sa'Kan
Personally, I hope that CCP changes this at some point in the future. Morphite is pretty valuable stuff and I feel that people should have to put more than 4-5 hours of training into it to be able to mine it as well as any other ore.

But its been like this for as long as I can remember and with all of their resources focused on re-balancing every ship in the game it will probably stay this way for a long long time.
Sunshyn LaBlond
Heathen Souls
#7 - 2013-03-12 19:27:50 UTC
If you move to null, even in a carebear role, you won't avoid combat. Whether it is thrust upon you, or simply that an alliance is going to expect you to pew in it's defense in exchange for all that mining money you want to make.......outside of high sec you need to know how to fight.

Isk ain't free and if you want to carebear in upgraded space, you'll be expected to pull your weight in PvP as well. It doesn't have to become your focus, but it's unrealistic to think you're going to be accepted to simply make a bunch of money in space other people work to gain/defend.

Get a jump on simple survival by learning the 'hidden' parts of PvP. By that I mean the stuff that no PvE teaches. Like the D-Scan, using map recon before moving, knowing your Gates Of Doom, and things like not warping gate to gate in null. CCP does nothing to teach people any of this. You should know every timer Eve runs, not just the ones with timers displayed on the screen.

Nav skill tree is your friend, whether you stand and fight or run away, there is no bad investment in training Nav obsessively.

For a serious non-PvPer, perhaps drones are a good investment over traditional turret/launchers because drones also open up salvage, logistics, and EWAR to the user. You can fly inexpensive drone boats or logistics in combat fleets, but still get use from drones for raping roids. There are really good T1 drone boats so you can fly solid ships on the cheap- I am a fan of the Arbitrator and it holds it's own among a fleet of shinier ships.

I would suggest though, that you train up some gun skills and work towards interceptors or assault frigates. Virtually any fleet will welcome fast tackle, T2 frigates take almost nothing to train into. Likewise, the only gun skills you really need to V if you aren't PvP focused is to get T2 guns (10 days or so without any implants) and a couple more for the specialization skill.

Lastly, consider alternative roles in your new null corp. Running plexes from the system scanner is extremely lucrative by itself, but many people will happily fleet with you and let you run a Noctis around hoovering up the wrecks. Split the loot, or get into rig production....if industry is your thing....

TL DR-- leave high sec and you WILL fight. Embrace this, learn to love the Kill Mail.

Hauer Outamon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#8 - 2013-03-12 19:48:27 UTC
Thanks for the reply, Sunshyn LaBlond.

I understand combat will find me more often than I'd prefer, it's something I expect from null-sec. Fortunately, I already took it upon myself to learn how to use the D-scanner defensively.

So, assuming I will have to take part in some combat roles, is there anything I can do that doesn't require any gunnery or missile training? I'd really like to avoid spending SP there. I like the idea of using drones efficiently, and switching between logistics/EC to fill a support role in the battlefield.

As far as training frigate skills, I trained Amarr frigate to V. I also have Covert Ops at IV, but as far as I know, cov ops aren't used extensively in PvP.

I'll definitely ask the recruiters about these kind of things, and about what kind of role I can fill.

Thanks for your help!
Sunshyn LaBlond
Heathen Souls
#9 - 2013-03-12 20:15:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Sunshyn LaBlond
Avoiding traditional weapons leaves options like Logistics or EWAR....However, these are themselves weapon systems in their own rights and come with the same bevy of support skills (usually 2x or 3x) to use them effectively. So you will still have to invest some time in them. However, Logi and EWAR do not scale for the size of the module like guns/turrets.

This means that once you train for say, ECM, you can use any 'size' ECM without training a new skill (technically there is no size to EWAR modules, I mean the size of the ship you can mount them on doesn't require a new skill). With guns, you need to train new skills for each size, small, med, large, etc. You can essentially train up EWAR or Logi skills ONCE and it follows all ship sizes. So like drones, EWAR/Logi is an excellent 'bang for the buck' in terms of training time investment.

For logi, there is the obvious shield/armor reps and cap xfer, but it's so cap intensive that the core engineering skills are essentially the support skills for it. Nav also is important because you must stay anchored but also be able to GTFO.

EWAR also happens to be strong on drone ships, which makes for a nice synergy. Amarr love putting EWAR on their drone ships rather than guns as a secondary weapon.

Drones, like turrets/launchers do require a new skill for each size, then each race even! But the sheer variety of uses that drones offer is immense for the number of support skills needed. Drones essentially offer every other type of 'weapon' type in one package- DPS, EWAR, Logi, even salvage. You have to train each individually and they aren't as strong as the true ship-sized systems...but they all share common support skills in the drone tree.

In null the MWD is preferred to escape bubbles- again in the Nav tree, but also cap intensive, so back to Engineering too.

Cloaking works well for industry types as well in the form of the Blockade Runner. A massively useful ship to be able to fly. Both for your own purposes, but to contribute to your corp's logistical efforts as well. You will be thanked for being able to fly one and most likely your corp/alliance will happily buy one on their dime.

CovOps is my main toon's primary job. It's awesome and having the ability to fly at near-normal speed cloaked then warp....makes null sec almost.....safe.....
But the stealth bomber side of CovOps is very skill intensive- missile support skills then missiles all the way to torps. And no other ship uses torps until you are months into training for larger ships.Then there is an entire skill for bombs...I love them, but they aren't good for 'dabbling' in PvP.
If you can probe well, fleets will again adore you for scanning down targets for pew, anomalies in upgraded sov, or finding WH's to poke around in. You just will likely not be in on the KMs. The sacrifice of the silent scout....
Hauer Outamon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#10 - 2013-03-12 20:34:45 UTC
You've certainly given me a lot to think about, I think the best thing for me to do right now is check with corp recruiters and see what kind of role I can fill. I'd really enjoy scouting and using the nav/cloaking skills for blockade running.

Thanks for the tips!
Ronix Aideron
Zymurgy Corp.
#11 - 2013-03-15 15:48:33 UTC
I agree with Sunshyn. Go with EWAR or Logi to contribute to Pvp Fleets.

These are not skill intensive and do not require gunnery skills. It will take a while for you to bring significant DPS to a fight but, not much time (week or too) to be skilled up in EWAR or logi. If you are reasonably good with this you would be pulling your weight in any fleet.

Start the day off slow and taper off from there.

http://eveboard.com/pilot/Ronix_Aideron

Friggz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#12 - 2013-03-19 14:16:45 UTC
You might also want to wait until after you've joined whatever corp you end up joining and ask what their fleet doctrine is. There may be ships they will use that don't require massive amounts of training. E-war and Logis are usually welcome, but these days you may not need to be able to fly T2 logis, they might be find with you in an t1 cruiser logi and those don't take long to train up. The important thing is to communicate with your corp and decide what the best way for you to be useful is.
Arkenai Wyrnspire
Incorruptibles
#13 - 2013-03-24 11:35:21 UTC
I'm going to agree with a number of posts here and say that t1 ewar boats and t1 logi cruisers are fantastic ships to use as a new player.
PvP might not be your thing, but you'll be able to contribute nicely with those ships.
Also, consider PvE a bit more in null. It's better than mining.

Someone.