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[Odyssey] Faction Navy Frigates

First post
Author
Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#41 - 2013-03-11 17:03:34 UTC
SmarncaV2 wrote:


How about T2 bc?



Based upon and "oldish" devblobg, command ships should be rebalanced for this summer xpack. Going to be interesting to see what they do with them all. As it currently stands t1 BCs have more total slots than the commands (excluding sleipnir and claymore), which honestly makes 100% no sense.
Lenier Chenal
Offensive Upholder
#42 - 2013-03-11 17:08:04 UTC
What did you change on the comet? Still the worst. 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount please :)
Lili Lu
#43 - 2013-03-11 17:25:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Lili Lu
Why does the Hookbill get essentially 3 bonuses?

"Caldari Frigate bonuses: +20% to Kinetic missile damage, +10% to EM, Explosive and Thermal missile damage and +10% to missile velocity per level"

Every other ship in this class clearly only gets two bonuses. Is there really any reason to give the ship the bonus for other damage types? Or if somehow you think the current state of affairs where the Hookbill is the best should be preserved, and somehow it deserves 3 bonuses, how about shaving that 10% range bonus to 7.5 or 5?

Another disappointment Fozzie. Take another week to think about this stuff before posting it all. None of this appears to be balancing things off of the already skewed state of affairs.
Capqu
Half Empty
#44 - 2013-03-11 17:27:46 UTC
Lili Lu wrote:
Why does the Hookbill get essentially 3 bonuses?

"Caldari Frigate bonuses: +20% to Kinetic missile damage, +10% to EM, Explosive and Thermal missile damage and +10% to missile velocity per level"

Every other ship in this class clearly only gets two bonuses. Is there really any reason to give the ship the bonus for other damage types? Or if somehow you think the current state of affairs where the Hookbill is the best should be preserved, and somehow it deserves 3 bonuses, how about shaving that 10% range bonus to 7.5 or 5?

Another disappointment Fozzie. Take another week to think about this stuff before posting it all. None of this appears to be balancing things off of the already skewed state of affairs.


you're pretty dumb if you think two mutually exclusive bonuses counts as it getting an extra bonus
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#45 - 2013-03-11 17:36:47 UTC
Lili Lu wrote:
Why does the Hookbill get essentially 3 bonuses?

"Caldari Frigate bonuses: +20% to Kinetic missile damage, +10% to EM, Explosive and Thermal missile damage and +10% to missile velocity per level"

Every other ship in this class clearly only gets two bonuses. Is there really any reason to give the ship the bonus for other damage types? Or if somehow you think the current state of affairs where the Hookbill is the best should be preserved, and somehow it deserves 3 bonuses, how about shaving that 10% range bonus to 7.5 or 5?

Another disappointment Fozzie. Take another week to think about this stuff before posting it all. None of this appears to be balancing things off of the already skewed state of affairs.


On a T1 hull where you just have 25%, you use the unbonused ammo and are at 80% of your normal damage. On this, without that em/exp/therm bonus you'd be doing a tiny fraction of your kinetic damage, so little that there'd be no point ever doing it.
Neugeniko
Insight Securities
#46 - 2013-03-11 17:44:15 UTC
RF Firetail is getting a nice damage boost, which is exactly what it needs. ATM it's just the right amount of interceptor but not enough AF. The slasher tiericide made it look even worse.

Neug
Tsai Ashitaka
Caidin Global Academy
#47 - 2013-03-11 17:55:05 UTC
Capqu wrote:
Lili Lu wrote:
Why does the Hookbill get essentially 3 bonuses?

"Caldari Frigate bonuses: +20% to Kinetic missile damage, +10% to EM, Explosive and Thermal missile damage and +10% to missile velocity per level"

Every other ship in this class clearly only gets two bonuses. Is there really any reason to give the ship the bonus for other damage types? Or if somehow you think the current state of affairs where the Hookbill is the best should be preserved, and somehow it deserves 3 bonuses, how about shaving that 10% range bonus to 7.5 or 5?

Another disappointment Fozzie. Take another week to think about this stuff before posting it all. None of this appears to be balancing things off of the already skewed state of affairs.


you're pretty dumb if you think two mutually exclusive bonuses counts as it getting an extra bonus



Indeed. It's like saying "+10% to shield extender effectiveness, +10% to armor plate effectiveness".

Unless Lili intends to rainbow fit her launchers. More power to her, I guess.
Pontos Maken
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#48 - 2013-03-11 18:06:07 UTC
Am I the only person who thinks the the INS is already overpowered and doesn't need a buff? If anything they need to be nerfed to bring them to the level of the others.
Johan March
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2013-03-11 18:13:38 UTC
darmwand wrote:
Glad to see that the faction frigates are getting some attention!

Now, speaking of the comet, what about repainting it in a nice black-and-white police-style look? Maybe with a flashing blue light?


What crossed my mind from the first post on this thread.

Also, I think the art department needs to break out a new shape for the Slicer.

Warde Guildencrantz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#50 - 2013-03-11 18:13:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Warde Guildencrantz
lili is already known to be biased against anything that makes caldari useful, no reason to argue with what is posted by this person

Also, it is quite clear that the hookbill is not overpowered at the moment, even keeping its bonuses. The hookbill's damage bonus is meant to make its dps viable since it only gets 3 launchers. Compared to the other navy boats it has similar DPS with kinetic and reasonably less with other damage types, instead of a useless amount of DPS. In this way, the bonus is quite fair. One of the main advantages of launchers is the damage type variation. Making other damage than kinetic constantly useless defeats the purpose of this advantage supposedly existing in the first place.

TunDraGon ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~ Youtube ~ Join Us

TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#51 - 2013-03-11 18:14:32 UTC
Pontos Maken wrote:
Am I the only person who thinks the the INS is already overpowered and doesn't need a buff? If anything they need to be nerfed to bring them to the level of the others.



Once they fix scorch it'll be useless.
Beaver Retriever
Reality Sequence
#52 - 2013-03-11 18:39:12 UTC
Kahega Amielden wrote:
Quote:
they don't have much in common with interceptors and AF's have 2 extra slots i think you underestimate how much an extra slot is worth over a bit of extra HP... nerf the speed a little on the firetail its as quick as the attack frigs


They don't have much in common with interceptors?

MWD velocities, align times

Claw: 4017 m/s, 3.26s
Firetail: 3519 m/s, 3.29s
Wolf: 2543 m/s, 4.23s

No, nothing in common at all.


Intys and AFs both have MWD sig reduction bonuses making them a lot more viable and survivable without dual prop.
Iris Bravemount
Golden Grinding Gears
#53 - 2013-03-11 18:39:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Iris Bravemount
CCP Fozzie wrote:

CALDARI NAVY HOOKBILL:
Caldari Frigate bonuses: +20% to Kinetic missile damage, +10% to EM, Explosive and Thermal missile damage and +10% to missile velocity per level


This is a bit off-topic, but could you please consider giving all ships with single damage type bonuses (especially the drake) a halved bonus for other damage types? It wouldn't make a big difference for PvP, because people will almost always use the main damage type, but would be that much more handy for low skillpoint chars who can't just take another race's ship for each rat type. I've been running missions in a drake with my alt, and while it performs just fine against most rat factions, bloodraiders and sansha's nation rats are a real pain now, because you lose 50% of your dps when switching to mjolnir missiles, as opposed to 25% before the combat BC change.

The Hookbill has (and keeps) this. Why shouldn't other ships get it?

"I will not hesitate when the test of Faith finds me, for only the strongest conviction will open the gates of paradise. My Faith in you is absolute; my sword is Yours, My God, and Your will guides me now and for all eternity." - Paladin's Creed

Vayn Baxtor
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#54 - 2013-03-11 18:45:01 UTC
Onnen Mentar wrote:
The changes look good, and can't wait to test them.

[Edit: whoops, didn't notice the other thread :D ]
Now with the firetail gaining more armor, minmatar have a "rupture-like" navy frigate, but how about providing a rupture-like regular frigate as well? All minmatar frigates are more geared towards shield tanking at the moment. Which is fine, but leaves the rifter as a worse slasher. To make the rifter unique why not drop a high for a low and add some more pg/cpu with hitpoints slightly in favour of armor?



I'm starting to have the feeling all regular Frigs should be upclassed across the board :/. There is always a significant lack that has nothing do with the advantage/disadvantage part.


Rifter just received a +50armor as announced in the other thread, but I don't know if that is even sufficent or going anywhere.

Using tablet, typoes are common and I'm not going to fix them all.

Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
#55 - 2013-03-11 20:07:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Veshta Yoshida
Why reduce the Slicer's capacitor performance? In my experience it is pretty damn near perfect, neither too much or too little.
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Jonas Sukarala wrote:
how come they don't get an extra slot?


Because I'm much happier with their balance at 10 slots. Bringing them to 11 would keep the normal pattern for navy ships intact but would require compensating with other significant nerfs.

Might one suggest an alternative route to distinguishing Navy hulls .. a role Navy bonus akin to those sported by the other faction hulls (ie. pirate boats). Not as big mind you, half or one third would suffice .. just a little somethin-somethin to set them apart and make up for what effectively is a loss of the slot they previously had on the T1 hulls.

Would have to do some serious soul searching though, find that nugget that epitomizes each of the four races, something that can ideally be applied to all of a races navy hulls.

Or you could go K.I.S.S. on their asses and opt for ~10% extra resists somewhere, or 1/3-1/2 of what is granted the T2 hulls.

Or you could say that Navies incorporated sleeper tech after the success they had with the T3 adoption and slap a bit of heat resistance on them ..
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#56 - 2013-03-11 20:26:41 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Jonas Sukarala wrote:
how come they don't get an extra slot?


Because I'm much happier with their balance at 10 slots. Bringing them to 11 would keep the normal pattern for navy ships intact but would require compensating with other significant nerfs.

do empty slots count? my slicer has only 9 ;)

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#57 - 2013-03-11 20:33:52 UTC
Veshta Yoshida wrote:
Why reduce the Slicer's capacitor performance? In my experience it is pretty damn near perfect, neither too much or too little.
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Jonas Sukarala wrote:
how come they don't get an extra slot?


Because I'm much happier with their balance at 10 slots. Bringing them to 11 would keep the normal pattern for navy ships intact but would require compensating with other significant nerfs.

Might one suggest an alternative route to distinguishing Navy hulls .. a role Navy bonus akin to those sported by the other faction hulls (ie. pirate boats). Not as big mind you, half or one third would suffice .. just a little somethin-somethin to set them apart and make up for what effectively is a loss of the slot they previously had on the T1 hulls.

Would have to do some serious soul searching though, find that nugget that epitomizes each of the four races, something that can ideally be applied to all of a races navy hulls.

Or you could go K.I.S.S. on their asses and opt for ~10% extra resists somewhere, or 1/3-1/2 of what is granted the T2 hulls.

Or you could say that Navies incorporated sleeper tech after the success they had with the T3 adoption and slap a bit of heat resistance on them ..

Hmmm.
I have to agree that a modest heat resistance bonus on all Navy vessels as a role bonus would add a certain logical flavor to them.

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Sieg oder Valhalla
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#58 - 2013-03-11 20:48:29 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Jonas Sukarala wrote:
how come they don't get an extra slot?


Because I'm much happier with their balance at 10 slots. Bringing them to 11 would keep the normal pattern for navy ships intact but would require compensating with other significant nerfs.


IMO, the Imperial Navy Slicer needs a third midslot like all the other faction frigates, either from adding an additional slot or by moving a lowslot up. Running a good PvP tackle requires a MWD/AB, web, and scram - three slots. So if the INS is to fill the role of a good solo FW frigate roamer, which to my mind the ship is geared towards being, then it needs the third midslot. Otherwise, why wouldn't I just take a Coercer with more DPS and EHP if I'm going to need an additional person to tackle for me anyway or if soloing take a Vengeance or Malediction so I can run full tackle?
CoiledVipers
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#59 - 2013-03-11 21:22:43 UTC
I'm quite happy with these changes
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Cal Stantson
Percussus Resurgo.
Villore Accords
#60 - 2013-03-11 21:41:23 UTC
Hookbill speed nerf is too much. Should be a shield HP nerf instead.