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Drone boats idea
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Drake Doe
88Th Tax Haven
#21 - 2013-03-08 17:23:35 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
culo duro wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Aren't ECM drones Caldari? Does it really fit?


anyone can use ecm drones.


But he is suggesting a specific bonus for Gallente ships to run Caldari drones at a higher jamming level then the Caldari effectively!


Oh yes it's only gallente boats that got drone bonuses, definently. No such thing as a pirate BS from Caldari. What's a Rattlesnake?


I did not think of the Rattlesnake when I made that point, though its not Caldari, its a pirate BS. I am not a fan of ECM drones to be honest, and I do admit that one part of me does like this idea, but its giving boosts to specialisations outside of the Gallente race, which I doubt will happen.

*facepalm* you mean like caldari systems getting boosts to non kinetic missiles and racial combat drones getting a damage boost on gallente drone boats?

"The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! pops more corn" ---Evernub--
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#22 - 2013-03-08 17:27:26 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:


anyone can use ecm drones.


But he is suggesting a specific bonus for Gallente ships to run Caldari drones at a higher jamming level then the Caldari effectively!


This just in: Gallente drone boats also seem to have the magic ability to get more out of Hornets, Vespas, and Wasps. To say nothing of Warriors, Valkyries, and Berserkers. I'd add in Acolytes, Infiltrators, and Praetors but... lol?

There are perfectly good reasons to think this is a bad idea (and some reasons to think it's a good one as well) but this isn't one of them....


So you're saying its the same as racial electronic warfare specialisations?


I'm saying that the direct parallel is comparing racial drone specializations, yes. I'm perfectly comfortable arguing about the idea that drone-bonused ships (Gallente or otherwise) should have bonuses to all drones regardless of their specific effects, even of those effects are normally associated with a race that doesn't normally use drones.


I can see where you are coming from, I was thinking along the lines of the damage bonus being the interface is better at controlling the drones so making them able to apply more damage, better attack runs, I guess that you could say the same for enabling the electronic warfare drones to better apply their effects, but where I fall down is that damage is made up of more factors which are affected by better handling, which the improved drone interface gives, but this does not in my opinion affect the electronic warfare bonuses. Sorry I still disagree.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2013-03-08 18:34:52 UTC
Roime wrote:
Yes please, one of my long time wishes. It just makes no sense that a drone ship gives up half of it's dps to use other drones, but the other drones are just as good on every ship that has a complimentary drone bay and still does full dps.

About ECM drones- halve their current strength so this change wouldn't make them retardedly OP. As a side bonus they wouldn't be so stupid on all ships as they are now :)



How about change them to 2/3. 1.5 = 3/2
3/2*2/3 = 1
In other words, ECM drones retain the same effectiveness on drone boats, but are nerfed for all other boats.

Meanwhile, webber, TP, etc drones are buffed on drone boats
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2013-03-08 22:46:55 UTC
well then ecm drones wouldnt be worth using unless you're in a droneboat, though I support the idea I doubt you will get much love from people who use them religiously.

Art of Explosions
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2013-03-09 00:16:47 UTC
Well, with so many people asking for a ECM drone nerf... I think it would get support from them... if all non drone boat ECM drones got nerfed....
Of course, you could tweak the numbers, say reduce ECM drone jam strength to 3/4 its current value, so the nerf isn't as strong, and the drone boats ECM drones now jam with 9/8 x their previous strength.

FWIW, I think this should apply to drone interfacing skill too, but perhaps with smaller or non linear increases for ECM.
It used to be you could launch 10 drones, now its 5 doing the damage of 10... but with the Ewar drones... well that was a huge nerf to them, because launching one meant effectively taking 2 of the old combat drones out of action.
The ewar drone increases should be smaller or non linear.
2 drones jamming are less effective than 1 drone with 2x the jam strength.
It would be plainly obvious in the case of a hypothetical web drone with a -50% speed effect. 2 of them (assume no stacking penalties, it gets worse including them) would reduce speed by 75%. If you instead had 1 drone with double the effect, you'd have a web that completely immobilizes the target, - 100%

Of course, CCP often overlooks these nuances, especially with ROF vs damage mods, and its why faction missile launchers out DPS T2 launchers (at least using standard/faction ammo), while this is not the case with any turret type, because with meta the turret damage goes up, while missile cycle time goes down.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2013-03-09 00:48:54 UTC
it would need a total rework though. ECM drones are too easy to kill for a start since there's no tech 2 versions and they're far too easy to apply since you can keep them on someone as long as you're on grid.

Art of Explosions
La5eR
House Mijaala
#27 - 2013-03-11 19:04:44 UTC
Good replies guys, lets see if we can get this prioritized or at least at the minimum. On CCP's dir scan. Good point on the ECM drones. They do have universal strength on them. So instead of giving a boost to their universal strength they would apply the races jamming strength instead of boosting their entire spectrum?
Auduin Samson
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2013-03-12 02:27:42 UTC
Mara Pahrdi wrote:
Drake Doe wrote:
+1
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#29 - 2013-03-12 12:12:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Katran Luftschreck
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
ECM drones will be op if that happened.


ECM multispectral jammer I is 2.0 strength of general ECM.
Half the Caldari line-up gives ECM bonuses of 15% per level or greater.
ECM boosting modules exist.
Racial specific modules exist.
T2 versions.


ECM drone is 1.5 strength of general ECM.
No ships give any ECM bonus to ECM drones.
No ECM boosting modules effect ECM drones.
Racial specific ECM drones do not exist (no radar, magno, etc - just basic Caldari drone with multispectral ECM)
No T2 versions.


So at what point does adding 10% per level to ECM drones make them OP?

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#30 - 2013-03-12 12:41:55 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Aren't ECM drones Caldari? Does it really fit?


anyone can use ecm drones.


Any ship can fit any module. Doesn't mean it's all bonused.
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