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[Odyssey] Faction Navy Frigates

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CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1 - 2013-03-11 13:23:54 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Phantom
Hello again! As those of you who have been following the ingame news and events concerning the four empires will know, this is a time of great upheaval in New Eden. All four empires are going through changes and jockeying for relative advantage in a cluster now filled with new immortal soldiers. In response to these new challenges, all four empires have secretly begun modernizing and updating their navy forces to face the threats of the future and better reward their most loyal capsuleers.

In practical terms this means that I am announcing some tweaks to our four faction navy frigates scheduled for the Summer expansion. As usual, we're looking for your participation in the process of polishing and iterating on these changes.

Biggest changes are for the Firetail which is gaining a bigger damage bonus, significant HP upgrades and better fitting.
The Slicer and Comet are getting light upgrades.
The Hookbill is a bit more of a mixed bag, gaining HP but gaining a small but noticeable amount of mass to slow it down.

IMPERIAL NAVY SLICER:
Frigate skill bonuses: +25% to small energy turret damage and +10% to small energy turret optimal range per level
Slot layout: 3H, 2M, 5L; 2 turrets , 0 launchers
Fittings: 50 (+3) PWG, 125 (+10) CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 550 (-36) / 725 (+21) / 600 (+14)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 500 / 250 (-31.25) s / 2 (+0.2238)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 350 / 3.3 / 1003000 / 3.1s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 40km (+9) / 675 (+65) / 5 (+1)
Sensor strength: 11 Radar (+1)
Signature radius: 38

CALDARI NAVY HOOKBILL:
Caldari Frigate bonuses: +20% to Kinetic missile damage, +10% to EM, Explosive and Thermal missile damage and +10% to missile velocity per level
Slot layout: 3H, 5M, 2L; 0 turrets, 3 launchers
Fittings: 37 PWG, 165 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull): 725 (+21) / 550 (+24) / 600 (+131)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 300 (+19) / 150 (-37.5) s / 2 (+0.5013)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 360 / 3.3 / 1081000 (+100000) / 3.34s (+0.31)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 45km (+10) / 600 (+50) / 5 (+1)
Sensor strength: 13 Gravimetric (+1)
Signature radius: 40

FEDERATION NAVY COMET:
Gallente Frigate bonuses: +7.5% to small hybrid turret tracking and +20% to small hybrid turret damage per level
Slot layout: 3H, 3M, 4L; 2 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 40 PWG, 160 (+8) CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull): 575 (-11) / 700 (+56) / 750 (+176)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 400 (+35) / 200s (-34.38) / 2 (+0.4427)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 375 / 3.135 / 970000 / 2.85s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 15 / 30
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 37.5km (+5) / 650 (+30) / 5 (+1)
Sensor strength: 11 Magnetometric
Signature radius: 42

REPUBLIC FLEET FIRETAIL:
Frigate skill bonuses: +25% (+5%) to small projectile turret damage and +7.5% to small projectile turret tracking per level
Slot layout: 3H, 4M, 3L; 2 turrets, 1 launchers
Fittings: 40 (+1) PWG, 150 (+10) CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 675 (+89) / 675 (+149) / 525 (+21)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 280 (+30) / 140s (-47.5) / 2 (+0.667)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 410 / 3.2 / 1098000 / 3.29s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 35km (+5) / 700 (+40) / 5 (+1)
Sensor strength: 10 Ladar (+1)
Signature radius: 35

Let us know what you think!

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2 - 2013-03-11 13:30:03 UTC
how come they don't get an extra slot?

'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place where is the TD missile change?  ..projectiles should use capacitor. ABC's should be T2 HABC and nerf web strength its still too high

CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#3 - 2013-03-11 13:32:35 UTC
Jonas Sukarala wrote:
how come they don't get an extra slot?


Because I'm much happier with their balance at 10 slots. Bringing them to 11 would keep the normal pattern for navy ships intact but would require compensating with other significant nerfs.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4 - 2013-03-11 13:33:39 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Jonas Sukarala wrote:
how come they don't get an extra slot?


Because I'm much happier with their balance at 10 slots. Bringing them to 11 would keep the normal pattern for navy ships intact but would require compensating with other significant nerfs.


but whats the point in using them over AF's or even the T1 counterparts?

'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place where is the TD missile change?  ..projectiles should use capacitor. ABC's should be T2 HABC and nerf web strength its still too high

Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5 - 2013-03-11 13:39:53 UTC
their sig radius is a bit big as-well the normal benefits of being faction don't seem to be here over the T1 counterparts with very little reason to fly them over AF's or the more interesting T1 bonuses.

'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place where is the TD missile change?  ..projectiles should use capacitor. ABC's should be T2 HABC and nerf web strength its still too high

CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#6 - 2013-03-11 13:46:04 UTC
They have some significant advantages over their T1 counterparts, including 50% more hitpoints and excellent combinations of speed and damage.

As before they straddle the line between Interceptors and AFs in many ways, tougher than Inties and faster then AFs. In general I'm quite confident that we can ensure that they remain worth the cost premium over T1 without needing to give them the extra slot.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#7 - 2013-03-11 13:50:06 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
They have some significant advantages over their T1 counterparts, including 50% more hitpoints and excellent combinations of speed and damage.

As before they straddle the line between Interceptors and AFs in many ways, tougher than Inties and faster then AFs. In general I'm quite confident that we can ensure that they remain worth the cost premium over T1 without needing to give them the extra slot.


they don't have much in common with interceptors and AF's have 2 extra slots i think you underestimate how much an extra slot is worth over a bit of extra HP... nerf the speed a little on the firetail its as quick as the attack frigs

'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place where is the TD missile change?  ..projectiles should use capacitor. ABC's should be T2 HABC and nerf web strength its still too high

l0rd carlos
the king asked me to guard the mountain
#8 - 2013-03-11 13:57:00 UTC
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 500 / 250 (-31.25) s / 2 (+0.2238)

In the end, with skills and all that, is that better or worse when flying an kiting slicer? More or less cap time?

______

I like the 10 slot layout. Many choose Navy ships over T2.

Youtube Channel about Micro and Small scale PvP with commentary: Fleet Commentary by l0rd carlos
Dato Koppla
Balls Deep Inc.
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#9 - 2013-03-11 13:57:27 UTC
Looks very reasonable, but I don't have that much experience in faction frigs except the Hookbill which hurts that its getting slower as it's premier set is the double web set which pretty much relied on speed to get the job done, hp buff is still nice though.
Meditril
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#10 - 2013-03-11 13:58:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Meditril
CCP Fozzie wrote:

FEDERATION NAVY COMET:
Fittings: 40 PWG, 160 (+8) CPU

REPUBLIC FLEET FIRETAIL:
Fittings: 40 (+1) PWG, 150 (+10) CPU

Let us know what you think!


So the Navy Comet is an Armor Tank ship with only 3 medium slots. Why does it have 10 CPU more than the Firetail which is often used as Shield Tank ship and has one more medium slot? Medium slots are usually very CPU hungry, therefore I advocate that the Firetail should have at least 160 CPU.
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#11 - 2013-03-11 13:58:34 UTC
l0rd carlos wrote:
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 500 / 250 (-31.25) s / 2 (+0.2238)

In the end, with skills and all that, is that better or worse when flying an kiting slicer? More or less cap time?

______

I like the 10 slot layout. Many choose Navy ships over T2.


Yeah our ways of writing this aren't always that clear. It's a reduction in the time it takes for cap to recharge from 0 to full, which equals an increase in the cap/s. That is a buff to the ship, and will make the cap last longer.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
l0rd carlos
the king asked me to guard the mountain
#12 - 2013-03-11 14:07:48 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:

Yeah our ways of writing this aren't always that clear. It's a reduction in the time it takes for cap to recharge from 0 to full, which equals an increase in the cap/s. That is a buff to the ship, and will make the cap last longer.

Yay \o/
Then i am happy :)
Thanks for clearing that up.

Youtube Channel about Micro and Small scale PvP with commentary: Fleet Commentary by l0rd carlos
Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#13 - 2013-03-11 14:08:42 UTC
perhaps consider giving them a role bonus say an afterburner bonus that was first considered for AF's.

Mwd's and AB's have the same mass penalty which seems a bit strange considering how much more speed you get out of a mwd and its job would surely require a bulkier engine to generate its speed ... physics and what not.

So perhaps consider reducing the mass penalty by %50 and perhaps building in some web resistance to promote the usefulness of AB's over mwd's.

combine the change of an AB mod with a small bonus to speed as using a mwd on a frig is bad idea without a mwd bonus so people will use AB's on frigs instead.

'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place where is the TD missile change?  ..projectiles should use capacitor. ABC's should be T2 HABC and nerf web strength its still too high

Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#14 - 2013-03-11 14:11:12 UTC
When I start reading these threads, I get so excited my brain is all "WHY CAN'T I READ THIS INFORMATION FASTER???"

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2013-03-11 14:12:03 UTC
Huh, never really thought they needed any work but the extra stats is appreciated.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Meditril
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#16 - 2013-03-11 14:13:33 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Huh, never really thought they needed any work but the extra stats is appreciated.


Firetail definatelly needs some kind of improvement. So except for the CPU I am happy with that (see above).
Onnen Mentar
Murientor Tribe
#17 - 2013-03-11 14:14:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Onnen Mentar
The changes look good, and can't wait to test them.

[Edit: whoops, didn't notice the other thread :D ]
Now with the firetail gaining more armor, minmatar have a "rupture-like" navy frigate, but how about providing a rupture-like regular frigate as well? All minmatar frigates are more geared towards shield tanking at the moment. Which is fine, but leaves the rifter as a worse slasher. To make the rifter unique why not drop a high for a low and add some more pg/cpu with hitpoints slightly in favour of armor?

Minmatar Balancing, 3 suggestions.
Rabbit P
Nuwa Foundation
Fraternity.
#18 - 2013-03-11 14:14:34 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:


FEDERATION NAVY COMET:

Capacitor (recharge rate): 200s (-234.38)


I got you, Fozzie~
it should be 200s (-34.38s)
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#19 - 2013-03-11 14:17:59 UTC
Rabbit P wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:


FEDERATION NAVY COMET:

Capacitor (recharge rate): 200s (-234.38)


I got you, Fozzie~
it should be 200s (-34.38s)


Good catch.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#20 - 2013-03-11 14:37:18 UTC
I also think these ships should have a unique bonus to set them further apart from AF's.

How about building one of the bonuses into the hull, like the Navy Slicer gets:

Amarr Frigate Bonus:
+10% to small energy turret optimal range per level
Role Bonus:
+125% to small energy turret damage.

Get more noobs to shoot at :D

Nah, I dunno. Make up something unique for me, thxbai

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}
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