These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Dev blog: The great ship skill change of summer 2013

First post First post
Author
Red SPlKE
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#961 - 2013-03-09 22:31:29 UTC
Forgive me if this was already answered, but I have some questions on command ships of the gallente flavour.

Right now I have command ships level 1, I have Heavy Assault ships 2, long range targeting to 4 and no logistics skill. I cannot fly any command ship right now but have the command ships skill injected and to level 1.

With the skill changes, Heavy assault is being removed from field command, and logistics are being removed from fleet command,. So the two skills I do not have are being removed from the ships prerequisites, and in their place all the warfare skills are being added as prerequisites to command ships.

Does this mean then, come the skill changes with my current skills I will be able to fly both the Eos and the astarte? Even more, since racial cruiser is being replaced by racial Battlecruiser I will have racial BC on all races so does this mean I will then be able to fly all the command ships?

Sorry if I am being stupid here and thanks for any help/
Chi'Nane T'Kal
Interminatus
#962 - 2013-03-09 23:33:50 UTC
Red SPlKE wrote:

Right now I have command ships level 1, [...]

I will have racial BC on all races so does this mean I will then be able to fly all the command ships?


Yes.

I took the liberty of reducing the quote to the relevant information :)

Quote:

Sorry if I am being stupid here and thanks for any help/


We had worse in this threat.
Sernum
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#963 - 2013-03-10 05:49:41 UTC
this is dumb change. thought we learned from incarna
Bubbleboylol
Militia Federation
#964 - 2013-03-10 08:28:14 UTC
Well they need to dumb the game down cause it is to hard to play now compared to ten years ago I guess--- So they need to follow the "trend"... Ugh

Asking to have more then one ( Option From CCP is like asking a chicken to cook it-self. )

Chi'Nane T'Kal
Interminatus
#965 - 2013-03-10 08:56:52 UTC
Bubbleboylol wrote:
Well they need to dumb the game down cause it is to hard to play now compared to ten years ago I guess--- So they need to follow the "trend"... Ugh


Only a complete Moron would still think that change is about dumbing down after all the information given to the contrary.

As a SIDE effect of the streamlining some things (exception: Orca) get slightly easier to achieve, and most of those are not even catered towards new players.
Bubbleboylol
Militia Federation
#966 - 2013-03-10 10:56:24 UTC
Chi'Nane T'Kal wrote:
Bubbleboylol wrote:
Well they need to dumb the game down cause it is to hard to play now compared to ten years ago I guess--- So they need to follow the "trend"... Ugh


Only a complete Moron would still think that change is about dumbing down after all the information given to the contrary.

As a SIDE effect of the streamlining some things (exception: Orca) get slightly easier to achieve, and most of those are not even catered towards new players.





^

Asking to have more then one ( Option From CCP is like asking a chicken to cook it-self. )

Roseline Penshar
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#967 - 2013-03-10 13:55:15 UTC
actually it become harder for a new player that play after summer skill change occur to use all race ship
Sinzor Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#968 - 2013-03-11 04:39:15 UTC
RacingSOUL wrote:
Would love to see a Phoenix buff, so it can at least hit a damn target going over 3 m/s, making it actually useful other than station bashing. Straight

What if, vice versa, it would get a buff in raw DPS without changing damage application - making it even better in bashing AND supercap destroying?
Lost True
Perkone
Caldari State
#969 - 2013-03-11 11:33:47 UTC
Duh. The good newbie will not quit because of another few weeks of skill training.

But for bots and alts it's a nice change.

But since it's a bots and alt's game, it's fine.

Because those ones going up:
http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility
(game)
But this one is going down:
http://traffic.alexa.com/graph?w=400&h=220&o=f&c=1&y=r&b=ffffff&n=666666&r=2y&u=eveonline.com&
(site, forums)

in 2007 i've thought it's a sci-fi simulator, not an "e-sports" game. I'm not a teenager, how would i like it much?

Chi'Nane T'Kal
Interminatus
#970 - 2013-03-11 12:46:46 UTC


How reliable is Alexa?

I've had the feeling that actual player numbers are not increasing as much as people claim for quite a while now, lacking reliable data tough.

It annoys me every time the EVE launcher reports active 'players' instead of 'pilots' for the same reason.
Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#971 - 2013-03-11 20:41:00 UTC
Sernum wrote:
this is dumb change. thought we learned from incarna


Question: Why are there no pirate destroyers or battlecruisers?

Take your time answering.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!

Lost True
Perkone
Caldari State
#972 - 2013-03-12 03:46:58 UTC
Chi'Nane T'Kal wrote:


How reliable is Alexa?

I've had the feeling that actual player numbers are not increasing as much as people claim for quite a while now, lacking reliable data tough.

It annoys me every time the EVE launcher reports active 'players' instead of 'pilots' for the same reason.

Well, i think it's more reliable than some counter of the small game company.

in 2007 i've thought it's a sci-fi simulator, not an "e-sports" game. I'm not a teenager, how would i like it much?

Inkarr Hashur
Skyline Federation
#973 - 2013-03-12 21:36:24 UTC
Chi'Nane T'Kal wrote:
Bubbleboylol wrote:
Well they need to dumb the game down cause it is to hard to play now compared to ten years ago I guess--- So they need to follow the "trend"... Ugh


Only a complete Moron would still think that change is about dumbing down after all the information given to the contrary.

As a SIDE effect of the streamlining some things (exception: Orca) get slightly easier to achieve, and most of those are not even catered towards new players.


Not to mention these changes give new players and low-SP players MORE opportunity to fail, crash and burn by flying things they aren't ready to fly.

This is directly contradictory with the claim that the changes "dumb down" the game.
Savira Terrant
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#974 - 2013-03-13 10:09:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Savira Terrant
I would like to point out to CCP that their plan on leaving the Freighter requirement for Jumpfreighters at Level 4 is now obsolete, since they will not need to gift the players with the required skillspoints after they changed it so that only the injected Jumpfreighter skill is needed for... wait, what? This does not work for freighters?! Never mind then.

But I really want to see correctly streamlined skilltrees. So please also change that for the Jumpfreighters. I am sure you will find a very creative way to handle the "flying stuff before and after" problem. You did find one for t1 ships and every other T2 ship at least.

Edit: Spontaniously what comes to my mind is to require Lvl 4 to fly it, but Lvl5 to inject the Jumpfreighter skill... it is not a very clean way to do it by all means (and you would still only require one of the freighters to 5), but it's creative, soo... mission accomplished.

But seriously: Jumpfreighters have always been the only T2 ships which did not require the t1 (racial) ship class to 5. Sooner or later you either have to **** off some Jumpfreighter pilots anyway or reimburse skillspoints.

If you really never want to do one of the above... what you could do is to just change it and flag all accounts with jumpfreighter skillbooks injected on patchday with the ability to fly Jumpfreighters with level 4 freighters for a limited amount of time (e.g. 58 days per character with JF injected and per racial freighter skill, which is the longest possible time to have the skill from 4-5 running off-spec and without implants). The countdown should only run as long as the account is active. Also flagged accounts and characters must show a highlighted information message on login if they are not skilling freighter to 5 at any moment.
This would make for almost two years of an interim solution to give players time and skill what their character was set out to be.

The thing is: Players will still be pissed to be forced to maybe skill offspec or are forced to skill an altchar taking away skilltime from their main on the same account, while they planned to not ever touch that character again. So if you don't find a solution that pisses nobody off, do it rather sooner than later, because there will only be more players having a freighter char due to additional time before a change. Thus damage reduction means to shift a change to be done asap.

And please do not tell me you will never change the requirements for JF's because it could make players angry.

.

Chi'Nane T'Kal
Interminatus
#975 - 2013-03-13 10:31:00 UTC
Savira Terrant wrote:

But I really want to see correctly streamlined skilltrees. So please also change that for the Jumpfreighters. I am sure you will find a very creative way to handle the problem of the "flying stuff before and after" problem. You did find one for t1 ships and every other T2 ship at least.


Please name those T2 ships. As a general rule, T2 ships require a racial skill - usually at V - and a specialist skill.

The Jumpfreighters skill is the specialist skill here, so the skilltree revamp has nothing to do with your problem.

The crux of the matter is, that the SHIP requirement of jump freighters is inconsistent with T2 ships regarding the lvlV racial requirement. There's no creative way to fix that fairly, either you break the 'still fly what you can before' rule or you don't.

That said, it would probably be easier and really not much worse to simply change the general requirements for T2 ships to racial IV + specialty skill. That way access to those ships would be easier, but those with the skill at V would stand out by flying the ship BETTER - just like with almost all the other skills.

It would also allow T2 ship requirements to be consistent, which is always a good thing. (Next in line: consistency for T2 modules :))

(A way to compensate those feeling grumpy of having 'needlessly' skilled to V could be to lower the base values of those ships and increase the level bonus, the same way harbinger or drake were modified towards an emphasis on BC V)
Savira Terrant
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#976 - 2013-03-13 10:47:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Savira Terrant
Sorry, I edited my post for too long. Ugh Please also refer to the new stuff...

The problem here is that the other T2 ships already required the T1 shipclass to 5 anyway, while the JF did not. So the fix was not needed. I was a bit off there.

I am against changing the prereq for T2 ships to Lvl 4 of the T1 ship. I do want to feel a sense of accomplishment after a long skill finished after all.

I do feel the same way about T2 module tree consistency and also think it should be next in line. Though I am not sure what I would want for this... there are modules that need Lvl 4 and there are modules that need Lvl 5. While it would be quite heavy on players to make all T2 modules require Lvl 5, I'd like the idea of shifting the additional bonus of being able to use a better module to be a reward for finishing a longer skill level.
A thorough look at all Meta, T2 and faction modules is needed anyway. Since meta still is often better in some way (e.g. fitting requirements or cap usage). They already buffed T2 plates, but now the pricey faction ones are worse but require the same pg as T2 (and a negligible bonus to CPU requirements).

I think meta items should have superior fitting capabilities, but less bonus. T2 should have superior bonus with a bit more fitting than T1 (non meta). Faction should have either even less fitting requirements then meta with a T2 bonus or a even more superior bonus than T2 with T2 fitting requirements, preferably I should be forced and able to choose between them. Deadspace should combine both superior fitting and bonus obviously with even more of a pricetag (that already is the case for most deadspace stuff.) And officer can do anything (e.g. I like that officer webs have a superior range bonus to everything else but require a huge amount of pg compared to the rest).
Then there is storyline, I don't really know what to do with this. E.g. before the T2 plates where buffed, the storyline plate had the same attributes as T2, but with an even more extreme fitting benefit than the meta plate. Looking at what I would wish for faction, this might be reduntant for storyline now. On the other hand, it could be made in a way (staying with the example of the plates here) that while the faction plates would require less CPU only - for ships that have plenty pg,but are tight on CPU like most Amarr ships - the storyline would have T2 bonuses with less pg requirement - for ships that were not really desinged to fit armor buffer tanks, but have plenty CPU like ewar ships that need plenty midslots to fill their role effectively. This sheme could be kept up for all other storyline modules also. The pricetags on most storyline modules (like the 'Bailey' plate) would definitely justify to be at least on par with faction modules.

Having such a defined sheme for all module types also makes it easier to add new modules to fill non-existing module types for a specific module (e.g. deadspace for armor plates etc.) should that be desired in the future (you know you want it :P).

.

Lord Fudo
Doomheim
#977 - 2013-03-13 18:07:11 UTC
Anyone happy about having to skill up Armor, Siege, Information and Skirmish to lvl 5 for command ships? Thats around 8-9 days each for lvl 5. Think lvl4 is about 24h each.

Also now we have to skill up all these jump drive skills for carriers? I dont give a **** about jump drived. I live in a wormhole. What the **** do i need a jump drive for in there.
Inkarr Hashur
Skyline Federation
#978 - 2013-03-13 18:54:20 UTC
Lord Fudo wrote:
Anyone happy about having to skill up Armor, Siege, Information and Skirmish to lvl 5 for command ships? Thats around 8-9 days each for lvl 5. Think lvl4 is about 24h each.

Also now we have to skill up all these jump drive skills for carriers? I dont give a **** about jump drived. I live in a wormhole. What the **** do i need a jump drive for in there.


I am not the least bit pleased with adding all 4 warfare skills as a prereq for command ships, no. Its silly. You don't need all 4 warfare skills to V to have yourself a functioning and effective booster alt. Jump drives are another matter.

Granted, even with this change the training time to sit a command ship will be even shorter than it is now. I think. So maybe that's a concern CCP had.
Chi'Nane T'Kal
Interminatus
#979 - 2013-03-13 19:15:08 UTC
Inkarr Hashur wrote:


I am not the least bit pleased with adding all 4 warfare skills as a prereq for command ships, no. Its silly.


Less ore more silly than assault ship/logistics?
At least those are COMMAND skills..you know, as in COMMAND ship.
It's not really CCPs fault those ships are used for something else.
Chi'Nane T'Kal
Interminatus
#980 - 2013-03-14 10:25:12 UTC
Savira Terrant wrote:
[T2 modules and stuff]


There's some confusion in your post and I'd love to clear it up, but I fear we'd be moving quite a bit away from this thread's topic. If you wish to open a new topic about T2 requirements in general somewhere (maybe features and ideas?) and drop me a note, I'd be happy to jump into the discussion :).