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ORE ship reimbursement and upcoming expansion

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Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#321 - 2013-03-11 09:46:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Rebecha Pucontis
Remiel Pollard wrote:
I dunno.... saying "CCP parrot" just sounds like a butthurt way of saying RubyPorto is "quoting the primary authoritative source of the issue". So every time you call him a parrot, all you're really doing is acknowledging that he's right in a vindictive way.


Except Ruby is incorrect as he seems to misconstrue CCPs statement and believes that he was saying exactly the same thing as CCP all along.

CCP quite clearly state that it is a valid concern being expressed, there is little ambiguity regarding that. The fact also that half an hour was spent writing a statement, and also this issue was discussed with other CCP members, indicates also that it is a valid concern that CCP aren't simply brushing off without realising some of the implications and concerns.

Rubyporto does not believe it is a valid concern as he has clearly expressed in this thread along with others. And so he is parroting CCP as whitehound suggests, although incorrectly by twisting CCPs words to suit his own agenda and trying to imply that he and CCP are saying exactly the same thing.

So in essence, CCP thinks that this is a legitimate concern, enough to write a comprehensive response. If you disagree with CCP on that then fair enough. But its quite amusing to see the trolls suddenly change their tune and leap onto CCP statement prostrating in agreement with their words. :)
Whitehound
#322 - 2013-03-11 09:48:24 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
If a million people claim that 2+2=5 and a trained parrot has been taught to say 2+2=4, then a million people aren't right because there's a million of them, they're just dumber than a trained parrot.

You are indeed a fool, because two plus two equals four by definition - a definition made by mathematicians and agreed upon by millions of other mathematicians.

GTFO, Malcanis.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Whitehound
#323 - 2013-03-11 09:49:11 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Better to be a parrot than a whining baby.

Oh the irony.

GET OUT!!

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#324 - 2013-03-11 09:49:27 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
I dunno.... saying "CCP parrot" just sounds like a butthurt way of saying RubyPorto is "quoting the primary authoritative source of the issue". So every time you call him a parrot, all you're really doing is acknowledging that he's right in a vindictive way.

We, the players, are the "primary authoritative source" here. It is fine that when you cannot decide for yourself to allow others to make decisions for you, but it is just patronizing for those who can make their own decisions.

We players decide from the first day we started playing EVE what skills we find useful. I see no reason why this should be taken away from us now.


So unsub and quit, that would be entirely your choice. There are plenty of games I don't like and don't play, but at the end of the day the devs still make the final decisions. Sure, the players should certainly be listened to, but if they left it up to the players, there would be little to no cohesion or consistency in development. Now, we can have a mature discussion, or we can accuse each other of patronisation and lack of personal attorney, but that seems tremendously redundant and the fact is, as long as a skill is useful for something, it's useful. Even if it's something you don't use it for, that's entirely beside the point. The milk analogy is perfect, but I've got a simpler one.

If you can't handle the heat, get outta the kitchen.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Whitehound
#325 - 2013-03-11 09:51:55 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
So unsub and quit, that would be entirely your choice. There are plenty of games I don't like and don't play, but at the end of the day the devs still make the final decisions. Sure, the players should certainly be listened to, but if they left it up to the players, there would be little to no cohesion or consistency in development. Now, we can have a mature discussion, or we can accuse each other of patronisation and lack of personal attorney, but that seems tremendously redundant and the fact is, as long as a skill is useful for something, it's useful. Even if it's something you don't use it for, that's entirely beside the point. The milk analogy is perfect, but I've got a simpler one.

If you can't handle the heat, get outta the kitchen.

0/10

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
TheBlueMonkey
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#326 - 2013-03-11 09:52:44 UTC
I'd like a reimbursement for all my science and industry skills but that's because I came to the conclusion that it's just boring, sadly this was only after 4.5mil in both.

As for ship skills, the more skills you have the better, so, erm... hush now child.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#327 - 2013-03-11 09:55:49 UTC
You guys are worse than politicians.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#328 - 2013-03-11 09:56:42 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
So unsub and quit, that would be entirely your choice. There are plenty of games I don't like and don't play, but at the end of the day the devs still make the final decisions. Sure, the players should certainly be listened to, but if they left it up to the players, there would be little to no cohesion or consistency in development. Now, we can have a mature discussion, or we can accuse each other of patronisation and lack of personal attorney, but that seems tremendously redundant and the fact is, as long as a skill is useful for something, it's useful. Even if it's something you don't use it for, that's entirely beside the point. The milk analogy is perfect, but I've got a simpler one.

If you can't handle the heat, get outta the kitchen.

0/10


Still a better rating than you're getting Cool

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#329 - 2013-03-11 09:57:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Rebecha Pucontis
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
I dunno.... saying "CCP parrot" just sounds like a butthurt way of saying RubyPorto is "quoting the primary authoritative source of the issue". So every time you call him a parrot, all you're really doing is acknowledging that he's right in a vindictive way.

We, the players, are the "primary authoritative source" here. It is fine that when you cannot decide for yourself to allow others to make decisions for you, but it is just patronizing for those who can make their own decisions.

We players decide from the first day we started playing EVE what skills we find useful. I see no reason why this should be taken away from us now.


So unsub and quit, that would be entirely your choice. There are plenty of games I don't like and don't play, but at the end of the day the devs still make the final decisions. Sure, the players should certainly be listened to, but if they left it up to the players, there would be little to no cohesion or consistency in development. Now, we can have a mature discussion, or we can accuse each other of patronisation and lack of personal attorney, but that seems tremendously redundant and the fact is, as long as a skill is useful for something, it's useful. Even if it's something you don't use it for, that's entirely beside the point. The milk analogy is perfect, but I've got a simpler one.

If you can't handle the heat, get outta the kitchen.


As stated above, and also as you stated in your post here, this is CCPs game, and CCP think that this was a legitimate concern.

Also it is quite ironic that the trolls are calling people whining babies. Nearly all the people who have bought this up have done so in a respectable and rational way, I haven't seen any whining or throwing toys out of the pram from the people trying to discuss the issue.

On the other hand the trolls have been whining non stop and throwing all their toys out their pram at the thought of the idea to reimburse SP.
Whitehound
#330 - 2013-03-11 09:59:34 UTC
TheBlueMonkey wrote:
I'd like a reimbursement for all my science and industry skills but that's because I came to the conclusion that it's just boring, sadly this was only after 4.5mil in both.

As for ship skills, the more skills you have the better, so, erm... hush now child.

The science skills are not the topic. If you find there is something wrong about them then start a thread and discuss it there instead of coming here and acting stupid. Your inability to handle your problems properly is not a fitting argument for this discussion.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#331 - 2013-03-11 10:01:33 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Your inability to handle your problems properly is not a fitting argument for this discussion.


But the inability to handle problems properly was the whole point of this thread.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#332 - 2013-03-11 10:02:05 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Better to be a parrot than a whining baby.

Oh the irony.

GET OUT!!



0/10

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#333 - 2013-03-11 10:03:43 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
If a million people claim that 2+2=5 and a trained parrot has been taught to say 2+2=4, then a million people aren't right because there's a million of them, they're just dumber than a trained parrot.

You are indeed a fool, because two plus two equals four by definition - a definition made by mathematicians and agreed upon by millions of other mathematicians.

GTFO, Malcanis.

The difference is that the mathematicians actually have a veritable expertise in the subject.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#334 - 2013-03-11 10:04:25 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
TheBlueMonkey wrote:
I'd like a reimbursement for all my science and industry skills but that's because I came to the conclusion that it's just boring, sadly this was only after 4.5mil in both.

As for ship skills, the more skills you have the better, so, erm... hush now child.

The science skills are not the topic. If you find there is something wrong about them then start a thread and discuss it there instead of coming here and acting stupid. Your inability to handle your problems properly is not a fitting argument for this discussion.


Heh. Yes its quite funny that the trolls like to throw around comments such as whiny babies, and then make such statements as this above, it is just like trying to discuss something with a child who is having a tantrum and coming out with inane comments.

If I could be bothered to go back and find all the whiny posts that have been written in regards to this concern it would cover a whole page. :)
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#335 - 2013-03-11 10:06:25 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
Your inability to handle your problems properly is not a fitting argument for this discussion.


But the inability to handle problems properly was the whole point of this thread.


^ How did you work that out? Go and re read the opening post, I dont see anyone with an inability to handle problem there. I see someone simply bringing up a concern in a rational way. The only whiny baby we can all see at the moment is you.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#336 - 2013-03-11 10:06:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Solstice Project
I wonder if anybody ever actually learned what a "discussion" is.

This thread, like every other thread, is just "throwing opinions at each other". People like you have no chance in hell
of ever learning anything valueable, because the only thing you can do is compare information from others with the
information others give you and if it doesn't fit into your narrow circle of logic, it gets dismissed as wrong or stupid.

You guys are not only worse than politicians, you are a the very sheep of every politican out there.

And you don't even feel ashamed about that. You are just robots. Mindless, stupid robots who can only do the same
thing over and over, with no chance of ever broadening your horizon.


in before all the already determined bullshit people usually throw at someone who tries to point out that their
behaviour is completely lunatic.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#337 - 2013-03-11 10:09:21 UTC
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
I dunno.... saying "CCP parrot" just sounds like a butthurt way of saying RubyPorto is "quoting the primary authoritative source of the issue". So every time you call him a parrot, all you're really doing is acknowledging that he's right in a vindictive way.

We, the players, are the "primary authoritative source" here. It is fine that when you cannot decide for yourself to allow others to make decisions for you, but it is just patronizing for those who can make their own decisions.

We players decide from the first day we started playing EVE what skills we find useful. I see no reason why this should be taken away from us now.


So unsub and quit, that would be entirely your choice. There are plenty of games I don't like and don't play, but at the end of the day the devs still make the final decisions. Sure, the players should certainly be listened to, but if they left it up to the players, there would be little to no cohesion or consistency in development. Now, we can have a mature discussion, or we can accuse each other of patronisation and lack of personal attorney, but that seems tremendously redundant and the fact is, as long as a skill is useful for something, it's useful. Even if it's something you don't use it for, that's entirely beside the point. The milk analogy is perfect, but I've got a simpler one.

If you can't handle the heat, get outta the kitchen.


As stated above, and also as you stated in your post here, this is CCPs game, and CCP think that this was a legitimate concern.

Also it is quite ironic that the trolls are calling people whining babies. Nearly all the people who have bought this up have done so in a respectable and rational way, I haven't seen any whining or throwing toys out of the pram from the people trying to discuss the issue.

On the other hand the trolls have been whining non stop and throwing all their toys out their pram at the thought of the idea to reimburse SP.


If you hadn't noticed, I was addressing someone specific at this point. And I challenge you to find one of my posts here where I've referred to someone, anyone, as a "whining baby". I don't make blanket statements, I specify. And honestly, I have no stake on the topic of skill points, I don't really care, I just train whatever seems prudent at the time. It really all seems quite trivial to me, I was originally addressing the people referring to RubyPorto as a "parrot" because he was quoting CCP without actually addressing his/her points (sorry, it's the internet so I can't be sure who is what or what is who).

If I had a stake, I would argue that unless the skill is removed outright, then it is still useful and therefore should not be reimbursed. However, I would also consider arguments that a case-by-case assessment should or should not be made. That, amongst many other factors, is something that needs to be considered here. Who gets reimbursed? Why? Does it give them an unfair advantage if they are and by what degree? Can they still do everything they could do before? Because whether or not newer players will have it harder or easier is entirely irrelevant - changes get made to games all the time that make things harder or easier for newer players to advance. Take EVE's old exploration and probing mechanics, for example, and compare that to how easy it is. How many explorers were reimbursed their time and effort from the old system? And by that account, why should skill points be any different?

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#338 - 2013-03-11 10:10:08 UTC
look i'm having a bit of trouble comprehending here. what the hell is rebacha trying to argue?
Princess Saskia
Hyperfleet Industries
#339 - 2013-03-11 10:11:04 UTC
inb4tl

 ♥ 
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#340 - 2013-03-11 10:12:45 UTC
ps inb4 'inb4tl'

... damn