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ORE ship reimbursement and upcoming expansion

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Author
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Alphea Abbra
Project Promethion
#281 - 2013-03-10 18:11:13 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:
(can't believe this thread is still going)
Mods are asleep, post innuendo?

At least the current topic is "hotter" and more "involved" with the "thrust of the argument" than when the OP was still posting.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#282 - 2013-03-10 18:18:07 UTC
Alphea Abbra wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:
(can't believe this thread is still going)
Mods are asleep, post innuendo?

At least the current topic is "hotter" and more "involved" with the "thrust of the argument" than when the OP was still posting.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA XD
I think they haven't realized what's going on.
They might just believe it's a ... hot ... topic.

Now i feel like blowing my load into something again ...
Alphea Abbra
Project Promethion
#283 - 2013-03-10 18:29:10 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:
Alphea Abbra wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:
(can't believe this thread is still going)
Mods are asleep, post innuendo?

At least the current topic is "hotter" and more "involved" with the "thrust of the argument" than when the OP was still posting.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA XD
I think they haven't realized what's going on.
They might just believe it's a ... hot ... topic.

Now i feel like blowing my load into something again ...
Do you mean I have to "swallow" my "pride" and accept the inevitable "lossmail" ?

You know, with all the "losses" you have "inflicted" so far, it won't be long before I have to "carebear" for "nine months", since I don't expect you to "provide SRP" ?!?

(Okay, that last one was pretty far-fetched)
Dave Stark
#284 - 2013-03-10 18:47:46 UTC
haha, this is golden.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#285 - 2013-03-10 18:52:50 UTC
Alphea Abbra wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:
Alphea Abbra wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:
(can't believe this thread is still going)
Mods are asleep, post innuendo?

At least the current topic is "hotter" and more "involved" with the "thrust of the argument" than when the OP was still posting.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA XD
I think they haven't realized what's going on.
They might just believe it's a ... hot ... topic.

Now i feel like blowing my load into something again ...
Do you mean I have to "swallow" my "pride" and accept the inevitable "lossmail" ?

You know, with all the "losses" you have "inflicted" so far, it won't be long before I have to "carebear" for "nine months", since I don't expect you to "provide SRP" ?!?

(Okay, that last one was pretty far-fetched)

EVEO General Discussion, making you never be able to look at your reimbursement team in the same way again.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#286 - 2013-03-10 18:55:31 UTC
Shocked
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#287 - 2013-03-10 19:05:59 UTC
Alphea Abbra wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:
Alphea Abbra wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:
(can't believe this thread is still going)
Mods are asleep, post innuendo?

At least the current topic is "hotter" and more "involved" with the "thrust of the argument" than when the OP was still posting.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA XD
I think they haven't realized what's going on.
They might just believe it's a ... hot ... topic.

Now i feel like blowing my load into something again ...
Do you mean I have to "swallow" my "pride" and accept the inevitable "lossmail" ?

You know, with all the "losses" you have "inflicted" so far, it won't be long before I have to "carebear" for "nine months", since I don't expect you to "provide SRP" ?!?

(Okay, that last one was pretty far-fetched)
I'm sorry, i'm speechless. *lol*
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#288 - 2013-03-10 19:15:09 UTC
I think i'll make my "tank" even "harder" so i can "shoot" more "ammo" into you,
so i can be sure you'll "explode" with satisfaction ... and then spread the "loot" all over me.
Reppyk
The Black Shell
#289 - 2013-03-10 19:17:38 UTC
ShockedShockedShocked
ShockedShockedShocked
ShockedShockedShocked

I AM SPACE CAPTAIN REPPYK. BEWARE.

Proud co-admin of frugu.net, a French fansite about EVE !
Alphea Abbra
Project Promethion
#290 - 2013-03-10 19:30:23 UTC
Reppyk wrote:
ShockedShockedShocked
ShockedShockedShocked
ShockedShockedShocked

Alavaria Fera wrote:
EVEO General Discussion, making you never be able to look at your reimbursement team in the same way again.

Destination SkillQueue wrote:
Shocked

Look, I am not sure I want to know what you think you're reading, but nothing that is "written" in here is "inappropriate".
All Solstice Project and I are "doing" is typing our consensual "pvp" "engagement" in "EVE Online" as earlier agreed upon through "conventional" and "legitimate" "business" transactions.
If you think it's "something else", then joke's on you!

@ Solstice Project: Is that a 1 000 MN MWD that my "ship scanner" reveals you have "fitted" ? It surely has a "signature bloom", and it does add "a few" "Newton" to your "velocity".
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#291 - 2013-03-10 19:41:39 UTC
Alphea Abbra wrote:
Look, I am not sure I want to know what you think you're reading, but nothing that is "written" in here is "inappropriate".
All Solstice Project and I are "doing" is typing our consensual "pvp" "engagement" in "EVE Online" as earlier agreed upon through "conventional" and "legitimate" "business" transactions.
If you think it's "something else", then joke's on you!
Probably perverts. ^_^

Quote:
@ Solstice Project: Is that a 1 000 MN MWD that my "ship scanner" reveals you have "fitted" ? It surely has a "signature bloom", and it does add "a few" "Newton" to your "velocity".
With that amount of "thrust" i could push into a "black hole" and make it shake all over ....
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#292 - 2013-03-10 22:58:40 UTC
Lol hahah.

It's great to see that the thread is still sticking firmly on topic here and full respect is being paid to the OP's valid concern.

Also I might add that the mods on these forums are marvelous, they are always here when you need them, but still have the discretion and forethought to allow valid topics to continue running to an acceptable conclusion.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#293 - 2013-03-10 23:20:55 UTC
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
Lol hahah.

It's great to see that the thread is still sticking firmly on topic here and full respect is being paid to the OP's valid concern.


On the contrary, we're paying the OP's concern all due respect.

The same respect due those who cry that they should receive a refund when the price of Milk drops after they purchase it.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#294 - 2013-03-11 00:33:34 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
Lol hahah.

It's great to see that the thread is still sticking firmly on topic here and full respect is being paid to the OP's valid concern.


On the contrary, we're paying the OP's concern all due respect.

The same respect due those who cry that they should receive a refund when the price of Milk drops after they purchase it.


It's a shame that the Eve forum trolls don't show the same respect as CCP do for his concern, then we might get some more intelligent conversation and debates on here.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#295 - 2013-03-11 02:48:40 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
It's a shame that the Eve forum trolls don't show the same respect as CCP do for his concern, then we might get some more intelligent conversation and debates on here.


Let's see what CCP has to say:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
As mentioned in the blog, the only skills that we can in good conscience reimburse are the Destroyers and Battlecruisers ones.

That is because the overhaul will make the two skills mentioned above useless. Even if we were going to give the Destroyers/Battlecruisers skill points back in the allocation pool on a 1:1 ratio, we would leave players unable to fly hulls they could use before the changes (we are creating four racial variants instead of a single generic skill).

All the other skills, including Mining Barge 5 for the Orca, are not in the same category however. We are not taking your ability to fly the vessels away but changing how they are reached - players will still be able to fly them after the change. We are even modifying how skill training works to make sure you can still train the skill itself after the plan goes live.


Let's see what we "forum trolls" have to say:
RubyPorto wrote:
Their utility to you is irrelevant. When Motherships turned into Supercarriers and lost the ability to fit a Clone bay, nobody got SP reimbursed, because the skill is still extant and useful (just probably not for the Super pilots). When Supers lost the ability to field drones, same thing. When Bombers switched from Cruise Missiles to Torpedos, nobody got SP reimbursed, because the Cruise Missile skills were still extant and useful.

Useful = Has a Use.

Learning skills got reimbursed because they were removed from the game. Some esoteric skills were eligible for having their SP reimbursed because they had no in-game effect. The Orca pre-reqs fit neither example.


They reimburse skills made useless (like Battlecruisers and learning skills), but not skills that are not made useless (like Orca Pre-reqs, and drone skills for Super Pilots).

Oh, and
CCP Ytterbium wrote:

Because even if the previous concept was deemed acceptable, EVE Online is not one of these games where skill allocation can be technically wasted: with time, any player can theoretically reach and train all the skills we have to offer. There is no such thing as a Class A preventing you from seeing Class B content unless you create a new character specifically for it.


CCP is saying the same things we've been saying for this thread (and your identical one). We just don't have to be polite about it, because you're not our customers.


Done crying over a milk sale yet?

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#296 - 2013-03-11 05:34:32 UTC
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
For playing the game ourselves, we do know how much of pain it is to have unwanted skills left in your character sheet because of a change you even remotely have nothing to do about. It seems logical that, since we required Mining Barges 5 trained as a pure time sink to reach the Orca, we should give the skill points back.

Except it's not, unfortunately. As mentioned in the blog, the only skills that we can in good conscience reimburse are the Destroyers and Battlecruisers ones.

That is because the overhaul will make the two skills mentioned above useless. Even if we were going to give the Destroyers/Battlecruisers skill points back in the allocation pool on a 1:1 ratio, we would leave players unable to fly hulls they could use before the changes (we are creating four racial variants instead of a single generic skill).

All the other skills, including Mining Barge 5 for the Orca, are not in the same category however. We are not taking your ability to fly the vessels away but changing how they are reached - players will still be able to fly them after the change. We are even modifying how skill training works to make sure you can still train the skill itself after the plan goes live.

Yes, it is annoying we leave you with a bunch of skills you have no interest into in your character sheet, and for that, you have our sincere apologies. But if we were to refund them here, other players, like capital pilots, or even people we affected during our numerous changes in the past, could rightfully claim for the same treatment. Because even if the previous concept was deemed acceptable, EVE Online is not one of these games where skill allocation can be technically wasted: with time, any player can theoretically reach and train all the skills we have to offer. There is no such thing as a Class A preventing you from seeing Class B content unless you create a new character specifically for it.

Invested skill points are still an asset - particularly Mining Barges 5, as it is very valuable for resource gathering characters. Which brings the question, why should we leave players with Mining Barge 5 trained if they are using the Orca as a hauler, or even a logistics platform for pirate related activities? That is because, initially, it was designed to be a logistic ship with a mining focus. You may not use any of its bonuses due to the sandbox nature of the game, but it didn't change the role it was initially tailored for.


So again, you do have our sympathy here - we wouldn't have spent half an hour writing this reply if we didn't care - but we cannot reimburse anything else than Destroyers and Battlecruisers in this case.


Thank you for the clarification and detailed response on this matter CCP Ytterbium, it is much appreciated by myself and I am sure many others.

In isolation this mining barge does not pose a large enough issue to warrant a major complaint from myself, and I have stated in this thread and others that this is a minor complaint and simply an anomaly in the otherwise excellent way CCP deals with other issues which I have experienced. Although the inevitable consequence of an event like this is that it begins to undermine of the skill system and the decisions we players make when attempting to optimise our training plans. The skill system is integral to the gameplay of eve, much more than in any other online game, and many players spend a lot of time planning and researching optimal skill training plans for their characters.

The only concern I have is will my future training plans be effected in a similar way to this as many more changes seem to be on the horzion. If so then that will really begin to effect my enjoyment of the game as for some months I am simply keeping my accounts running to achieve my skill training goals with little time actually spent in the game.


CCP Ytterbium wrote:

This is a valid concern. While there is no way we can promise we will never ever do skill changes again, overhaul like theses are supposed to last for quite a while - which is why we modified a lot of vessels to make sure we wouldn't have to do it again soon. Even if we do change some skills in the near future, it should not impact gameplay nearly as much.

To answer the question however, you need to ask yourselves "when was the last time CCP changed ship skills on such a wide scale?" That was... uh.. well... never since launch?* Oops

*That I can remember. Please don't hold my family responsible over 7 generations if you find a smart quote listing 200 ship skill changes in 2004, thank youCry


It sounds like they think it is a valid concern to me. Seeing as they actually say "this is a valid concern". :)

But nevertheless it doesn't really matter what your opinion is on the matter. CCP have produced the above statement which will be of more interest to those concerned than your constant rambling over sunk costs.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#297 - 2013-03-11 05:45:47 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Nevermind.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#298 - 2013-03-11 07:07:45 UTC
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
It sounds like they think it is a valid concern to me. Seeing as they actually say "this is a valid concern". :)

But nevertheless it doesn't really matter what your opinion is on the matter. CCP have produced the above statement which will be of more interest to those concerned than your constant rambling over sunk costs.


He says that your concern that future, not yet announced changes might affect your enjoyment of the game is valid. Of course, being the polite but meaningless platitude that that is, he goes on to quite specifically make no promises that CCP will not change skills in the future, "impacting" your gameplay in the exact same way this change did (which is to say, not at all, or in beneficial ways).

He says nothing that would indicate that he's saying that your original whine in that thread (wanting SP reimbursed), or the OP's whine in this thread (wanting SP reimbursed) is valid, and quite clearly stated that you would not be getting SP reimbursed.

And since you keep quoting the part of Ytterbium's post that completely negates all of your arguments to date, I might as well put it here again in the hopes you might read it:

CCP Ytterbium wrote:
It seems logical that, since we required Mining Barges 5 trained as a pure time sink to reach the Orca, we should give the skill points back.

Except it's not, unfortunately. As mentioned in the blog, the only skills that we can in good conscience reimburse are the Destroyers and Battlecruisers ones.

That is because the overhaul will make the two skills mentioned above useless. Even if we were going to give the Destroyers/Battlecruisers skill points back in the allocation pool on a 1:1 ratio, we would leave players unable to fly hulls they could use before the changes (we are creating four racial variants instead of a single generic skill).

All the other skills, including Mining Barge 5 for the Orca, are not in the same category however. We are not taking your ability to fly the vessels away but changing how they are reached - players will still be able to fly them after the change. We are even modifying how skill training works to make sure you can still train the skill itself after the plan goes live.



"It seems logical... Except it's not"

That's his response to your crying over the decreasing price of milk.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Frying Doom
#299 - 2013-03-11 07:20:54 UTC
I must admit I really havent kept up with this one.

So how about they give us some free SP for the inconvenience of not being inconvenienced Lol

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#300 - 2013-03-11 07:54:16 UTC
Excuse me ? We were busy here. go make a thread about your irrelevant issue.