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Should nullsec industry > hisec industry?

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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#881 - 2013-03-11 00:19:55 UTC
Brooks Puuntai wrote:


Though I would like to hear what you would want, since any idea you seem to shoot down as not good enough.


Simply more slots in null. The station owner can set the charge to run them, much like the repair services.
Frying Doom
#882 - 2013-03-11 00:23:40 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Brooks Puuntai wrote:


Though I would like to hear what you would want, since any idea you seem to shoot down as not good enough.


Simply more slots in null. The station owner can set the charge to run them, much like the repair services.

I myself would prefer the charge to act as an isk sink and subsequently preventing outpost owners with no running costs from charging little for the slots and being able to massively undercut POS owners and NPC station users.

With that ability the whole system would just collapse and we would have exactly what we have now but favouring outpost owners instead of NPC facility users.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#883 - 2013-03-11 00:26:46 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:



With that ability the whole system would just collapse and we would have exactly what we have now but favouring outpost owners instead of NPC facility users.


We are literally talking about saving a few thousand per run if the outpost owners chose to charge nothing. You seriously think that will lead to a collape of NPC station use?
Frying Doom
#884 - 2013-03-11 01:21:54 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:



With that ability the whole system would just collapse and we would have exactly what we have now but favouring outpost owners instead of NPC facility users.


We are literally talking about saving a few thousand per run if the outpost owners chose to charge nothing. You seriously think that will lead to a collape of NPC station use?

In comparison to the expense of POS facilities?

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#885 - 2013-03-11 03:25:10 UTC
Kane Alvo wrote:
I know I'm right, along with a great many others. Null bears are calling for CCP intervention to fix their industry woes, when they should be doing it themselves. Instead, you're all content to roam your sovereign space, blue your neighbors, and whine about what you don't have. There's nothing stopping you from setting up trade agreements with other alliances, creating trade hubs, or any number of things....including going to war and expanding your territory for access to more industry options.

Yes, POSs need to be fixed. Yes, corp roles need fixed. Yes, you probably do need more industry slots. But the calls to be fully independent of high sec T1 production are ludicrous. The calls for "we should have access to everything without logistics" are equally stupid. And there's no reason to nerf other areas of space just so you can all feel like special snowflakes for 5 minutes until you find something else to whine about.


yes i agree completely. also faction war should never have been "fixed" by ccp. all the people in it were just whining for fixes and what they didn't have. there are no problems whatsoever with eve online and anyone who points one out is just trying for a handout.

hahaha this whole time those stupid nullseccers could have been 'setting up trade agreements with neighbors', 'expanding their territory' and 'creating trade hubs' which would have solved all their problems in some nebulous fashion because of the emergent gameplay
Tesal
#886 - 2013-03-11 03:35:14 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
Kane Alvo wrote:
I know I'm right, along with a great many others. Null bears are calling for CCP intervention to fix their industry woes, when they should be doing it themselves. Instead, you're all content to roam your sovereign space, blue your neighbors, and whine about what you don't have. There's nothing stopping you from setting up trade agreements with other alliances, creating trade hubs, or any number of things....including going to war and expanding your territory for access to more industry options.

Yes, POSs need to be fixed. Yes, corp roles need fixed. Yes, you probably do need more industry slots. But the calls to be fully independent of high sec T1 production are ludicrous. The calls for "we should have access to everything without logistics" are equally stupid. And there's no reason to nerf other areas of space just so you can all feel like special snowflakes for 5 minutes until you find something else to whine about.


yes i agree completely. also faction war should never have been "fixed" by ccp. all the people in it were just whining for fixes and what they didn't have. there are no problems whatsoever with eve online and anyone who points one out is just trying for a handout.

hahaha this whole time those stupid nullseccers could have been 'setting up trade agreements with neighbors', 'expanding their territory' and 'creating trade hubs' which would have solved all their problems in some nebulous fashion because of the emergent gameplay


Hi-sec industry isn't factional warfare, its been around for 10 years. It was designed to have a low barrier to entry easy accessibility so that anyone could do it, much like PI has a low barrier to entry. It's "working as intended™".
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#887 - 2013-03-11 03:39:10 UTC
Factional warfare is also a low barrier to entry.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#888 - 2013-03-11 03:40:45 UTC
actually i can't tell what's going on with your post i'll just assume it's rubbish
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#889 - 2013-03-11 03:43:25 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:



With that ability the whole system would just collapse and we would have exactly what we have now but favouring outpost owners instead of NPC facility users.


We are literally talking about saving a few thousand per run if the outpost owners chose to charge nothing. You seriously think that will lead to a collape of NPC station use?

In comparison to the expense of POS facilities?



POS expenses aren't that high, really. Not when you break it down.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#890 - 2013-03-11 03:45:24 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
Kane Alvo wrote:
I know I'm right, along with a great many others. Null bears are calling for CCP intervention to fix their industry woes, when they should be doing it themselves. Instead, you're all content to roam your sovereign space, blue your neighbors, and whine about what you don't have. There's nothing stopping you from setting up trade agreements with other alliances, creating trade hubs, or any number of things....including going to war and expanding your territory for access to more industry options.

Yes, POSs need to be fixed. Yes, corp roles need fixed. Yes, you probably do need more industry slots. But the calls to be fully independent of high sec T1 production are ludicrous. The calls for "we should have access to everything without logistics" are equally stupid. And there's no reason to nerf other areas of space just so you can all feel like special snowflakes for 5 minutes until you find something else to whine about.


yes i agree completely. also faction war should never have been "fixed" by ccp. all the people in it were just whining for fixes and what they didn't have. there are no problems whatsoever with eve online and anyone who points one out is just trying for a handout.

hahaha this whole time those stupid nullseccers could have been 'setting up trade agreements with neighbors', 'expanding their territory' and 'creating trade hubs' which would have solved all their problems in some nebulous fashion because of the emergent gameplay

Nerf emergent gameplay. Unless it's emerging from NPCs or better yet actors with QA shield extenders to quadruply make sure nothing ever goes off track.

And then bugs occur. Sometimes players occur, but you can stomp on those more easily.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#891 - 2013-03-11 05:32:31 UTC
Kane Alvo wrote:
of all the CSM candidates, he is the only one advocating for emergent, aka player-generated content. Which in my opinion, is something those of you in null sec should be doing...creating your own content instead of asking for handouts.

No, we're asking to be able to create our own content.
Clearly you haven't actually read anything we're saying...

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Kane Alvo
Doomheim
#892 - 2013-03-11 05:38:35 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
Factional warfare is also a low barrier to entry.


Apparently null sec's barrier to entry is too high for most of you?

Caldari Militia  ☜★☞ Psychotic Monk for CSM8

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#893 - 2013-03-11 05:44:36 UTC
It's not so much a barrier as "wow this is completely pointless, what reason would anyone ever have to do this".

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Frying Doom
#894 - 2013-03-11 06:21:25 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:



With that ability the whole system would just collapse and we would have exactly what we have now but favouring outpost owners instead of NPC facility users.


We are literally talking about saving a few thousand per run if the outpost owners chose to charge nothing. You seriously think that will lead to a collape of NPC station use?

In comparison to the expense of POS facilities?



POS expenses aren't that high, really. Not when you break it down.

Compared to the cost of NPC slots?

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Frying Doom
#895 - 2013-03-11 06:27:16 UTC
Tesal wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
Kane Alvo wrote:
I know I'm right, along with a great many others. Null bears are calling for CCP intervention to fix their industry woes, when they should be doing it themselves. Instead, you're all content to roam your sovereign space, blue your neighbors, and whine about what you don't have. There's nothing stopping you from setting up trade agreements with other alliances, creating trade hubs, or any number of things....including going to war and expanding your territory for access to more industry options.

Yes, POSs need to be fixed. Yes, corp roles need fixed. Yes, you probably do need more industry slots. But the calls to be fully independent of high sec T1 production are ludicrous. The calls for "we should have access to everything without logistics" are equally stupid. And there's no reason to nerf other areas of space just so you can all feel like special snowflakes for 5 minutes until you find something else to whine about.


yes i agree completely. also faction war should never have been "fixed" by ccp. all the people in it were just whining for fixes and what they didn't have. there are no problems whatsoever with eve online and anyone who points one out is just trying for a handout.

hahaha this whole time those stupid nullseccers could have been 'setting up trade agreements with neighbors', 'expanding their territory' and 'creating trade hubs' which would have solved all their problems in some nebulous fashion because of the emergent gameplay


Hi-sec industry isn't factional warfare, its been around for 10 years. It was designed to have a low barrier to entry easy accessibility so that anyone could do it, much like PI has a low barrier to entry. It's "working as intended™".

Yes Pi is a great example, It costs more to do when you use an NPC POCO than it does when you use your own. With NPC taxes just like NPC station slots should.

Maybe that is the answer a Tax similar to the PI tax on the cost of the finished product.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#896 - 2013-03-11 10:25:12 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:

In comparison to the expense of POS facilities?


POS need an utter rework, but thats not going to happen untill at least all the ships have been teircided. Keeping the fix as simple as possible would mean a much quicker fix for null sec industry as far as slots go.
Felicity Love
Doomheim
#897 - 2013-03-11 10:30:16 UTC
Double the numbers of slots in Null... maybe even buff the slot's production speed, too.... less "red tape", fewer "middle management"... call it what you will, just frikkin' do it.

March Break, best break... ciao.

"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#898 - 2013-03-11 10:43:31 UTC
Felicity Love wrote:
Double the numbers of slots in Null... maybe even buff the slot's production speed, too.... less "red tape", fewer "middle management"... call it what you will, just frikkin' do it.

March Break, best break... ciao.



That wouldn't be enough. To give you an idea of how bad it is there are 5 systems in high sec with more slots than all of null sec combined.

Right now I would settle for 50% of highsecs number of slots and see how it goes from there.
Frying Doom
#899 - 2013-03-11 12:01:36 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:

In comparison to the expense of POS facilities?


POS need an utter rework, but thats not going to happen untill at least all the ships have been teircided. Keeping the fix as simple as possible would mean a much quicker fix for null sec industry as far as slots go.

Actually the alterations to POS are mostly altering some percentages and fixing a couple of security holes. Not much is really needed to make them less of a torture device.

No it is unlikely CCP will ever actually bother fixing them properly so there is not much need to ask for that.

So a cost per usage for outposts and NPC facilities
An increase in Outpost slots
An alteration to POS refinery numbers
A pos security fix
A Pos hanger fix

And done

Bugger all really.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#900 - 2013-03-11 13:22:26 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
It's not so much a barrier as "wow this is completely pointless, what reason would anyone ever have to do this".

Yeah, it is pointless doing T1 production in nullsec.

You should be using that manufacturing capability to produce capital ships and drugs since you *can't* make those in highsec.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs