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Should nullsec industry > hisec industry?

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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#861 - 2013-03-10 17:43:21 UTC
Lapine Davion wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Lapine Davion wrote:
If nullsec industry is too hard, just go back to highsec.

CHECKMATE, GOONS!

YEAH, get back on CONCORD's hawt azz titazz

EDIT: Where do you think all the stuff being JFed from Jita to VFK comes from?

I hope you aren't directing this at me.

Arguing with these nerf null guys is like trying to argue on TPC. Post all the facts and evidence you want, it's all biased towards nullsec. (Because reality has a well known nullsec bias.)

Where do you think the stuff JFed from Jita is manufactured?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Kane Alvo
Doomheim
#862 - 2013-03-10 18:04:43 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
Kane Alvo wrote:
I support Psychotic Monk for one reason, and one reason only: of all the CSM candidates, he is the only one advocating for emergent, aka player-generated content. Which in my opinion, is something those of you in null sec should be doing...creating your own content instead of asking for handouts.

As a new player, the vast majority of what I see emanating from null is elitism. Most of the null bear advocates seem to think they're above everyone else as if null is some kind of exclusive neighborhood, and the rest of us are just high sec peeons...and I don't even live in high sec.

yeah giving people destructible industry services that were actually worth using probably wouldn't help generate any content. you're right.


I know I'm right, along with a great many others. Null bears are calling for CCP intervention to fix their industry woes, when they should be doing it themselves. Instead, you're all content to roam your sovereign space, blue your neighbors, and whine about what you don't have. There's nothing stopping you from setting up trade agreements with other alliances, creating trade hubs, or any number of things....including going to war and expanding your territory for access to more industry options.

Yes, POSs need to be fixed. Yes, corp roles need fixed. Yes, you probably do need more industry slots. But the calls to be fully independent of high sec T1 production are ludicrous. The calls for "we should have access to everything without logistics" are equally stupid. And there's no reason to nerf other areas of space just so you can all feel like special snowflakes for 5 minutes until you find something else to whine about.

Caldari Militia  ☜★☞ Psychotic Monk for CSM8

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#863 - 2013-03-10 18:07:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Kane Alvo wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
Kane Alvo wrote:
I support Psychotic Monk for one reason, and one reason only: of all the CSM candidates, he is the only one advocating for emergent, aka player-generated content. Which in my opinion, is something those of you in null sec should be doing...creating your own content instead of asking for handouts.

As a new player, the vast majority of what I see emanating from null is elitism. Most of the null bear advocates seem to think they're above everyone else as if null is some kind of exclusive neighborhood, and the rest of us are just high sec peeons...and I don't even live in high sec.

yeah giving people destructible industry services that were actually worth using probably wouldn't help generate any content. you're right.


I know I'm right, along with a great many others. Null bears are calling for CCP intervention to fix their industry woes, when they should be doing it themselves. Instead, you're all content to roam your sovereign space, blue your neighbors, and whine about what you don't have. There's nothing stopping you from setting up trade agreements with other alliances, creating trade hubs, or any number of things....including going to war and expanding your territory for access to more industry options.

Yes, POSs need to be fixed. Yes, corp roles need fixed. Yes, you probably do need more industry slots. But the calls to be fully independent of high sec T1 production are ludicrous. The calls for "we should have access to everything without logistics" are equally stupid. And there's no reason to nerf other areas of space just so you can all feel like special snowflakes for 5 minutes until you find something else to whine about.

Yeah, screw nullsec, just go back to highsec (where you already are anyway). Your kind has to be FORCED to rely on CONCORD and the NPC corps.

Go get your handouts in highsec from the NPCs like everyone else.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Kane Alvo
Doomheim
#864 - 2013-03-10 18:10:51 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Yeah, screw nullsec, just go back to highsec (where you already are anyway). Your kind has to be FORCED to rely on CONCORD and the NPC corps.


Thanks for the pro tip. I'll inform my CEO that we've been doing this faction war thing wrong. All this time, we've been in low sec, but apparently we should be in high sec under the protection of CONCORD and NPC corps.

Since you're an expert, where can I find faction war plexes in high sec? Hold on, I wanna get a pen and paper so I can write this down.

Caldari Militia  ☜★☞ Psychotic Monk for CSM8

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#865 - 2013-03-10 18:15:15 UTC
Kane Alvo wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Yeah, screw nullsec, just go back to highsec (where you already are anyway). Your kind has to be FORCED to rely on CONCORD and the NPC corps.


Thanks for the pro tip. I'll inform my CEO that we've been doing this faction war thing wrong. All this time, we've been in low sec, but apparently we should be in high sec under the protection of CONCORD and NPC corps.

Since you're an expert, where can I find faction war plexes in high sec? Hold on, I wanna get a pen and paper so I can write this down.

You don't do industry in the plexes, I hope. Because if so, you're really doing it wrong.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
flakeys
Doomheim
#866 - 2013-03-10 19:25:30 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
flakeys wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
flakeys wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
So has this discussion gotten past the point where all the people from hi-sec seem to believe that everyone in Null is a member of Goonswarm and that every member has a tech moons worth of profit available to them alone?



Funny how this discussion never took place with a 40+ page threadnaught while there where more and bigger wars going on in a few years back?And now that half of null is carebearland all of a sudden we got a huge incomeproblem ....

uhuh

You might want to check that, I seem to remember them going back at least a few years but in f&I not Gd



I don't need to check that as i said ''when there where bigger wars on'' tell me after the north collapsed a few years back has there been any ''big war'' ? All you got left is huge blobs killing off small blobs and whining that that smaller blob doesn't undock o/TEST looking at you lot .


So again , enlighten me why this is a verry high concern now that big wars are non existant and while technetium income is skyhigh for a large part of null.And again yes it is a large part if you look at the amount of players in the OTEC alliances.

How the hell did alliances like BOB -owwww i dared say it and in comes T2 whining- even stay alive for longer then 1 month beats me , i mean they should have been sucked dry as an alliance and as members the day they stepped into null right?I mean they had constant wars and didn't suck techtitty as much as CFC does yet they're idnustrial backbone was strong and delivered perfectly during wartimes yeaaaaaaaaaars back and we didn't even have JF's / jumpbridges then .


Ahh i know they must have been cheating devs , that's it it all makes sense now.


Well let's see, from my perspective I couldn't give a stuff about null wars, so I am talking about player owned being better than NPC.

Enlighten me wasn't bib the alliance getting illegal help from devas, being the reason we have a csm now?

But to be honest I don't care about big alliances in anyway other than the effect bootum up income and a usage based sov will have.

I care about the industrialists be they part of an alliance or solo, now these people myself included deserve and for that matter pay for more than just getting stuffed into hi sec and being told to rot.



What i am trying to point out is that ... it allways has been this way.Yet now the complaints are drasticly increasing in a time where income in null is higher then before.OW yes and i am talking about other alliances then goons , the small boohoo we haz no techmoons.I had a half year in syndicate recently as i like to enjoy high/low and null at times .. i can tell you i made a SHITLOAD more then in the ''yearly years'' doing plexing and that's with allmost exclusively neuts passing every few minutes .More then enough to cover any ''jumpfreightercost'' to get my **** up.And i was so happy to get my jumpfreighter jumping in , it made me think of the times i was in ASCN and had to fly my freighter 20 jumps through low-sec with no or hardly any escort.

In short there has been stufff added specifically for this , jumpfreighters and jumpbridges.So yes sure let's get industry in null up ... and immediatly get rid of jumpbridges and jumpfreighters.Ow no yes that's right , we want it all in our own pocket.Some of you guys should really try living solo in npc null again it might open your eyes to the luxury and ease you have there.

You lot remind me of a rich person complaining about the airco beyond a tad too loud when they are eating in their fancy restaurant while homeless jack outside is having the night of the week because he got a 1 dollar given to him from someone passing by.

You forgot how the game was or have never experienced it, your nothing different from a miner complaining that if he fits a tank his mined ore will go down per hour wich makes me want to shove a bantam under his ass and say ''hey dude this is how we did it and if you are lucky one day you can mine in the apoc ... ''.

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#867 - 2013-03-10 19:48:00 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Lapine Davion wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Lapine Davion wrote:
If nullsec industry is too hard, just go back to highsec.

CHECKMATE, GOONS!

YEAH, get back on CONCORD's hawt azz titazz

EDIT: Where do you think all the stuff being JFed from Jita to VFK comes from?

I hope you aren't directing this at me.

Arguing with these nerf null guys is like trying to argue on TPC. Post all the facts and evidence you want, it's all biased towards nullsec. (Because reality has a well known nullsec bias.)

Where do you think the stuff JFed from Jita is manufactured?


In my butte.

[b]Don't worry about posting with your main!  Post with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."[/b]
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#868 - 2013-03-10 19:52:38 UTC
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
Many of the issues regarding null industry could be eliminated with updating POSs. Really that should be more of a priority then fixing Dominion at this point. Since it could allow corps/alliances in npc null/WH to build up in preparation for sov null. Also I feel POSs are in worse shape then Sov is.



So I take it you are in favor of massively increased costs for using the high sec slots then.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#869 - 2013-03-10 20:13:21 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
Many of the issues regarding null industry could be eliminated with updating POSs. Really that should be more of a priority then fixing Dominion at this point. Since it could allow corps/alliances in npc null/WH to build up in preparation for sov null. Also I feel POSs are in worse shape then Sov is.

So I take it you are in favor of massively increased costs for using the high sec slots then.

No, just making the POSes (which are more expensive and a TON harder to use than highsec slots) into new updated POS which will be more expensive and a great deal harder to use than highsec slots.

See the difference, it's such a great treat for a "small portion of the playerbase".

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Tesal
#870 - 2013-03-10 20:43:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Tesal
The nullsec agenda is groupthink in action.

*Also, Goon serious posters need to remember their roots.
Primary Me
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#871 - 2013-03-10 20:51:49 UTC
flakeys wrote:
What i am trying to point out is that ... it allways has been this way.Yet now the complaints are drasticly increasing in a time where income in null is higher then before.OW yes and i am talking about other alliances then goons , the small boohoo we haz no techmoons.I had a half year in syndicate recently as i like to enjoy high/low and null at times .. i can tell you i made a SHITLOAD more then in the ''yearly years'' doing plexing and that's with allmost exclusively neuts passing every few minutes .More then enough to cover any ''jumpfreightercost'' to get my **** up.And i was so happy to get my jumpfreighter jumping in , it made me think of the times i was in ASCN and had to fly my freighter 20 jumps through low-sec with no or hardly any escort.

In short there has been stufff added specifically for this , jumpfreighters and jumpbridges.So yes sure let's get industry in null up ... and immediatly get rid of jumpbridges and jumpfreighters.Ow no yes that's right , we want it all in our own pocket.Some of you guys should really try living solo in npc null again it might open your eyes to the luxury and ease you have there.

You lot remind me of a rich person complaining about the airco beyond a tad too loud when they are eating in their fancy restaurant while homeless jack outside is having the night of the week because he got a 1 dollar given to him from someone passing by.

You forgot how the game was or have never experienced it, your nothing different from a miner complaining that if he fits a tank his mined ore will go down per hour wich makes me want to shove a bantam under his ass and say ''hey dude this is how we did it and if you are lucky one day you can mine in the apoc ... ''.


It's not actually about the isk. Those asking for an industry rebalance are only asking to be able to earn the same amount of isk in null that their alts are currently earning in hi-sec; unfortunately it appears that to do this the isk earning potential of hi-sec will need to be lowered but that is a side issue to this.

What is hoped for is that an industry rebalance, together with sov and pos mechanic change will enable more conflict drivers to exist in null; larger populations doing more non-combat related activities will need more escorting/guarding which in turn will provide more targets, which will start the PvP food chain allowing PvP at all levels rather than just the huge fleet actions and sov grind that we currently have.

Imagine the effect of having various pieces of industry infrastructure that can be put out of action by a small roaming gang for a number of hours; losing a few hours of production occasionally is no big deal, but if it happens constantly the industrialists will demand action from the alliance PvPers, who will in turn have to start interdicting these roaming gangs, all of which is providing much needed content to null.

Null should be the place to make great riches, but at great risk. It should be where those that dare go to make, and possibly lose, their fortunes, with an emphasis on 'possibly lose'.
Tesal
#872 - 2013-03-10 20:59:17 UTC
Primary Me wrote:


It's not actually about the isk. Those asking for an industry rebalance are only asking to be able to earn the same amount of isk in null that their alts are currently earning in hi-sec; unfortunately it appears that to do this the isk earning potential of hi-sec will need to be lowered but that is a side issue to this.

What is hoped for is that an industry rebalance, together with sov and pos mechanic change will enable more conflict drivers to exist in null; larger populations doing more non-combat related activities will need more escorting/guarding which in turn will provide more targets, which will start the PvP food chain allowing PvP at all levels rather than just the huge fleet actions and sov grind that we currently have.

Imagine the effect of having various pieces of industry infrastructure that can be put out of action by a small roaming gang for a number of hours; losing a few hours of production occasionally is no big deal, but if it happens constantly the industrialists will demand action from the alliance PvPers, who will in turn have to start interdicting these roaming gangs, all of which is providing much needed content to null.

Null should be the place to make great riches, but at great risk. It should be where those that dare go to make, and possibly lose, their fortunes, with an emphasis on 'possibly lose'.


You are living in a fantasy world. The changes that are usually prescribed by the nullsec agenda people won't deliver what you are talking about.
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#873 - 2013-03-10 21:01:58 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
Many of the issues regarding null industry could be eliminated with updating POSs. Really that should be more of a priority then fixing Dominion at this point. Since it could allow corps/alliances in npc null/WH to build up in preparation for sov null. Also I feel POSs are in worse shape then Sov is.



So I take it you are in favor of massively increased costs for using the high sec slots then.


Actually I'm but on a tiered scale.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
Frying Doom
#874 - 2013-03-10 21:32:07 UTC
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
Many of the issues regarding null industry could be eliminated with updating POSs. Really that should be more of a priority then fixing Dominion at this point. Since it could allow corps/alliances in npc null/WH to build up in preparation for sov null. Also I feel POSs are in worse shape then Sov is.



So I take it you are in favor of massively increased costs for using the high sec slots then.


Actually I'm but on a tiered scale.

Please define

"tiered scale"

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#875 - 2013-03-10 21:44:09 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
Many of the issues regarding null industry could be eliminated with updating POSs. Really that should be more of a priority then fixing Dominion at this point. Since it could allow corps/alliances in npc null/WH to build up in preparation for sov null. Also I feel POSs are in worse shape then Sov is.



So I take it you are in favor of massively increased costs for using the high sec slots then.


Actually I'm but on a tiered scale.

Please define

"tiered scale"


Pretty much as its stated. Installation Cost and price per hour goes up based off of tier level and depending on the item type(mods cost less to build then ships).



CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
Frying Doom
#876 - 2013-03-10 21:54:49 UTC
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
Many of the issues regarding null industry could be eliminated with updating POSs. Really that should be more of a priority then fixing Dominion at this point. Since it could allow corps/alliances in npc null/WH to build up in preparation for sov null. Also I feel POSs are in worse shape then Sov is.



So I take it you are in favor of massively increased costs for using the high sec slots then.


Actually I'm but on a tiered scale.

Please define

"tiered scale"


Pretty much as its stated. Installation Cost and price per hour goes up based off of tier level and depending on the item type(mods cost less to build then ships).




So the cost per hour would be less for example to build a shuttle, than to build a battleship for instance?

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#877 - 2013-03-10 21:59:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Brooks Puuntai
Frying Doom wrote:


So the cost per hour would be less for example to build a shuttle, than to build a battleship for instance?


If you want to break it down that far sure.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
Frying Doom
#878 - 2013-03-10 22:09:49 UTC
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:


So the cost per hour would be less for example to build a shuttle, than to build a battleship for instance?


If you want to break it down that far sure.

I like to be clear and I do like to hear new ideas.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#879 - 2013-03-10 22:10:58 UTC
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:


So the cost per hour would be less for example to build a shuttle, than to build a battleship for instance?


If you want to break it down that far sure.


So we would have the same issues as we do now with most things.
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#880 - 2013-03-10 22:34:13 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:


So the cost per hour would be less for example to build a shuttle, than to build a battleship for instance?


If you want to break it down that far sure.


So we would have the same issues as we do now with most things.


That would depend on how much the values are set. You can't expect it to work on all items without killing off new players ability to produce.

Though I would like to hear what you would want, since any idea you seem to shoot down as not good enough.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden