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Margin Trading Scam...

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Lord Fudo
Doomheim
#61 - 2013-03-08 15:10:43 UTC
OP, what do you do in real life? Do you not pay attention to details of contracts? Has anyone ever taught you the saying "If it's too good to be true, it probably isn't true"?

I have a nice sea side home I'd like to sell you in Nevada. I'll give you a great deal on it.
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#62 - 2013-03-08 16:15:36 UTC
CCP could destroy margin trading scams in one day with just a few lines of code... if they wanted to.

How? You know how when people get busted cheating CCP will knock their ISK account into the negative and force them to work their way back out of the hole?

Allow the same thing to happen when people don't actually have the ISK to cover a margin trade. Their ISK balance is now negative. Have fun getting out of the hole. Oh, and you biomass your toon then the bill gets passed to the next one on the account.

Problem solved. Very easy. If they wanted to.

Sad reality, though, they don't want to. Welcome to Sociopaths Online.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0
Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#63 - 2013-03-08 16:28:42 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
CCP could destroy margin trading scams in one day with just a few lines of code... if they wanted to.

How? You know how when people get busted cheating CCP will knock their ISK account into the negative and force them to work their way back out of the hole?

Allow the same thing to happen when people don't actually have the ISK to cover a margin trade. Their ISK balance is now negative. Have fun getting out of the hole. Oh, and you biomass your toon then the bill gets passed to the next one on the account.

Problem solved. Very easy. If they wanted to.

Sad reality, though, they don't want to. Welcome to Sociopaths Online.

None of that solves the problem and it actually has the potential to destroy the entire economy of the game.
Cebraio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#64 - 2013-03-08 16:38:31 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
CCP could destroy margin trading scams in one day with just a few lines of code... if they wanted to.

How? You know how when people get busted cheating CCP will knock their ISK account into the negative and force them to work their way back out of the hole?

Allow the same thing to happen when people don't actually have the ISK to cover a margin trade. Their ISK balance is now negative. Have fun getting out of the hole. Oh, and you biomass your toon then the bill gets passed to the next one on the account.

Problem solved. Very easy. If they wanted to.

Sad reality, though, they don't want to. Welcome to Sociopaths Online.

I use the margin trading skill on my trade alt for obvious reasons (not scamming). It's quite possible that I don't have enough isk for all open orders, if multiple buy orders get filled on the same day. No thank you, I don't want to be treated like a RMT guy, when I just play the market. Your idea is terrible.
flakeys
Doomheim
#65 - 2013-03-08 16:48:53 UTC
Cebraio wrote:
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
CCP could destroy margin trading scams in one day with just a few lines of code... if they wanted to.

How? You know how when people get busted cheating CCP will knock their ISK account into the negative and force them to work their way back out of the hole?

Allow the same thing to happen when people don't actually have the ISK to cover a margin trade. Their ISK balance is now negative. Have fun getting out of the hole. Oh, and you biomass your toon then the bill gets passed to the next one on the account.

Problem solved. Very easy. If they wanted to.

Sad reality, though, they don't want to. Welcome to Sociopaths Online.

I use the margin trading skill on my trade alt for obvious reasons (not scamming). It's quite possible that I don't have enough isk for all open orders, if multiple buy orders get filled on the same day. No thank you, I don't want to be treated like a RMT guy, when I just play the market. Your idea is terrible.


Unfortunatly most people don't understand the value of this fine skill being used in a 'good way' unless they have done so themselves.And as we know our 'breed ' is not that big in the world of eve as such don't count on many people standing behind the skill itself or understanding it's need as a tycoon trader .

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Angelique Duchemin
Team Evil
#66 - 2013-03-08 16:49:39 UTC
What's a Margin Trading Scam?

The very sun of heaven seemed distorted when viewed through the polarising miasma welling out from this sea-soaked perversion, and twisted menace and suspense lurked leeringly in those crazily elusive angles of carven rock where a second glance shewed concavity after the first shewed convexity.

Cebraio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#67 - 2013-03-08 16:54:29 UTC
Angelique Duchemin wrote:
What's a Margin Trading Scam?

I googled it for you:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=18942
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#68 - 2013-03-08 20:29:38 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
CCP could destroy margin trading scams in one day with just a few lines of code... if they wanted to.

How? You know how when people get busted cheating CCP will knock their ISK account into the negative and force them to work their way back out of the hole?

Allow the same thing to happen when people don't actually have the ISK to cover a margin trade. Their ISK balance is now negative. Have fun getting out of the hole. Oh, and you biomass your toon then the bill gets passed to the next one on the account.

Problem solved. Very easy. If they wanted to.

Sad reality, though, they don't want to. Welcome to Sociopaths Online.


Neat. A free, infinite ISK fountain. Sounds like a great plan.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Posta Wifda Mosta
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#69 - 2013-03-08 20:54:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Posta Wifda Mosta
Jonathon Oday wrote:
Well I would if there were some legitimate market for them. Maybe there is that I don't know of? Suggestions welcome.


Well if there is no market for the items you could hold on to them for a bit. Thing about the escrow scammers is once they complete the scam they will do it again, often in a different region. Check out the other trade hubs for the same scam going on, then if you see it what you can do is fill the order for just the amount of escrow the scammer had to pony up. So if his buy order is say 2 billion, fill the order but edit the sale price to say 460 million. Roughly 23%.
Posta Wifda Mosta
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#70 - 2013-03-08 20:57:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Posta Wifda Mosta
oops a DP
Haulie Berry
#71 - 2013-03-08 21:40:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Haulie Berry
0wl wrote:
I'll also drop this tit bit of information, margin trading is also dangerous to the person placing the buy order, it IS possible to get that order to go through and release the equity in it... However I shall not go into the details.



Pretty sure it goes like this:

They still have SOME percentage of the money in escrow. If you can (cheaply) acquire the necessary number of items from somewhere else, you can sell them at a price <= the amount held in escrow for the margin buy.

The minimum escrow % is 24%, so if they have a buy order up for 10 items at 100,000,000 each, for a total of 1 billion, they DO have 240,000,000 in escrow.

If you can get your hands on 10 of those item for less than that, you can sell them to them and manually set the price to <24m each and pillage their escrow.

It is entirely possible to run this scam with parameters that do not make that feasible by not being overly greedy, though - if you limit your scam buy price to <~4x the actual value of the item, it will be difficult or impossible for anyone to actually buy the item at a price that makes it profitable to drain your escrow. So, in the above example, if the item you're "buying" for 100M is actually worth 30 million, it's not really a feasible vulnerability. If, on the other hand, the item is worth only 5 million....
Angelique Duchemin
Team Evil
#72 - 2013-03-08 22:00:31 UTC
Cebraio wrote:
Angelique Duchemin wrote:
What's a Margin Trading Scam?

I googled it for you:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=18942



That's utterly ridiculous. Why would CCP even let us spend money we don't have just to let other people cover the loss.

The very sun of heaven seemed distorted when viewed through the polarising miasma welling out from this sea-soaked perversion, and twisted menace and suspense lurked leeringly in those crazily elusive angles of carven rock where a second glance shewed concavity after the first shewed convexity.

Haulie Berry
#73 - 2013-03-08 23:20:34 UTC
Angelique Duchemin wrote:
Cebraio wrote:
Angelique Duchemin wrote:
What's a Margin Trading Scam?

I googled it for you:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=18942



That's utterly ridiculous. Why would CCP even let us spend money we don't have just to let other people cover the loss.



Er... I kind of feel like maybe your understanding of the scam is incomplete.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#74 - 2013-03-09 01:17:21 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Angelique Duchemin wrote:
Cebraio wrote:
Angelique Duchemin wrote:
What's a Margin Trading Scam?

I googled it for you:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=18942



That's utterly ridiculous. Why would CCP even let us spend money we don't have just to let other people cover the loss.


Having a buy order up != buying any item.

If you try to sell to an order with insufficient funds behind it, the order cancels, and you retain your goods. It's equivalent to getting to the checkout at a store and finding that your Debit Card comes up insufficient funds (minus the mortification).

The scam is the part where the con artist got you to purchase those goods from him at wildly inflated prices.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Surann
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#75 - 2013-03-09 07:55:20 UTC
welcome to the free market ... i day traded for many years in the US financial markets and this is rampant even there ... fake buy orders flood the tape daily ....
Mag's
Azn Empire
#76 - 2013-03-09 09:47:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
CCP could destroy margin trading scams in one day with just a few lines of code... if they wanted to.

How? You know how when people get busted cheating CCP will knock their ISK account into the negative and force them to work their way back out of the hole?

Allow the same thing to happen when people don't actually have the ISK to cover a margin trade. Their ISK balance is now negative. Have fun getting out of the hole. Oh, and you biomass your toon then the bill gets passed to the next one on the account.

Problem solved. Very easy. If they wanted to.

Sad reality, though, they don't want to. Welcome to Sociopaths Online.
It doesn't solve any problem, but it does create one. You've been told this before, when you posted this bad idea.

It also degrades the penalty for RMT. The only one with issues here dear, is you.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Wyke Mossari
Staner Industries
#77 - 2013-03-09 10:08:36 UTC
Destination SkillQueue wrote:
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
CCP could destroy margin trading scams in one day with just a few lines of code... if they wanted to.

How? You know how when people get busted cheating CCP will knock their ISK account into the negative and force them to work their way back out of the hole?

Allow the same thing to happen when people don't actually have the ISK to cover a margin trade. Their ISK balance is now negative. Have fun getting out of the hole. Oh, and you biomass your toon then the bill gets passed to the next one on the account.

Problem solved. Very easy. If they wanted to.

Sad reality, though, they don't want to. Welcome to Sociopaths Online.

None of that solves the problem and it actually has the potential to destroy the entire economy of the game.


+1; When will people learn ignorance is in no way endearing!
Zack Korth
Livid CO.
#78 - 2013-03-09 11:34:44 UTC
thanks! i enjoyed all the tears, i think i'll get some chips
Athena Maldoran
Doomheim
#79 - 2013-03-09 13:07:08 UTC
HaHa... Your actually a month old and are crying about margin trade scamming? Hillarious..
my alt Semah
Doomheim
#80 - 2013-06-06 05:08:03 UTC
My alt has lost 1 bil on a scam and yet in less than a month i have made it back easily it is just you learn from your mistake and move on