EVE General Discussion

Assumes that the person buying the PLEX would still buy them with real, even if the ISK price is lower. Fail.

Besides, the desired change to not be able to escape war dec would not effect just me and my 4 accounts. It would effect ALL high sec carebears that fund their accounts on PLEX, the majority of PLEX consumers.

The bottom line is that wothout it turning into pay to win, instead of pay for someone else to grind your ISK, long-term CCP can't sell more PLEX to customers, then there are accounts being funded via PLEX. If they do, then PLEX prices will drop until people stop buying PLEX, or more accounts are funded with PLEX. You want those accounts funded with PLEX to be accounts that would not be funded if not for PLEX, and that means lots of carebear indy alts... not PVPers that do a few hours of anoms, then buy the PLEX for the account they would have funded with real if PLEX cost more ISK in game.



EVERY account funded on PLEX is a PLEX that CCP gets to sell to other players.

It is not a threat. It is a simply reality.

CCP created mechanisms that allow carebears to play this game, largely unmolested by griefers. These mechanisms have been successful at attracting large numbers of carebears. Those carebears are a significant portion of the revenue stream, which is why CCP intentionally created the game mechanics that cater to carebears.

Without those mechanics, the carebears will quit paying and CCP loses the revenue they generate.

This is why I have no fear that CCP will make significant changes to the mechanisms that allow carebears to go largely unmolested.


The problem is, too many PVPers think of carebears as potential easy targets if CCP would just... [insert idea here]. This is one dimensional thinking. No one plays a game where they exist just to be f'd with by others. Make these changes that make it easier to f' with carebears, and there won't be any carebears.

CCP knows this. This is why they created the game mechanics that they have, and why they will not remove them, no matter how much any group (even CSM) rants for it.

If NPC corps existed to protect newbies, then CCP would have created them such that only newbies can be in them.


NPC corps clearly exist to allow ANY carebear to avoid being driven out of the game by unwanted war dec... this is why anyone can join.


i know you don't like it, but there it is.

Back in early 2011, the game reached all time player highs. PLEX were 380m. People still bought and sold thousands of them.

A couple months ago, PLEX were 600m a shot. Did people start buying tons of PLEX? No, volume was about the same as it is today, where it is 500m isk.

There is very little correlation between people purchasing the PLEX and their ISK cost. Sure people would like more bang for their buck, but the people who decide they are going to buy PLEX and sell them are going to do it regardless.

How do you know that they are the majority of PLEX consumers?

Even if they were, I find it absolutely hilarious that the player group that is the most disposable and the group that largely doesn't pay for the game is so adamant about their overpowered playstyle not being changed one bit, over players who are paying for their accounts and want to play a fun game. No one is going to buy PLEX when the only people who are left are the people who play for free.

So, CCP's announcements that they are at record subscriber levels are lies? I think the numbers were something like 350K 2011, 400K 2012, and they just broke 500K.

Or are those extra accounts all in China?

I don't think you should confuse a war on bots, which reduces the number of accounts logged in at any given time (since bots are on more than most other accounts), with a drop in subscriptions


Is that 'thousands of them" more or less than are being bought and sold today? Logic would dictate that if it used to be X hours of ratting to make the equiv of $15 real, or is now 2X hours of ratting, more would now be taking the "real" option over the 2x ratting option.




CCP tells us how many PLEX they sell for real? I hope you are not looking at trade volume in game, since we have no idea how many times a PLEX is traded in game between when it is purchased for real and when it is used to add time to an account. Heck, that number of times traded is likely HIGHLY influenced by speculative trading accompanying a drastic price increase, and of course, the reverse of price spike accompanying speculative buying and selling.






This exceptional claim will require exception evidence. Reference to data please.



Again, this exceptional claim will require exception evidence. CCP has repeatedly released numbers showing the vast mojority of players live in high sec, and only a tiny minority show up on kill reports on a regular basis.

Sure, that will be heavily influenced by the number of null players that have many high sec alts for trading, price checks, hauling, etc. But, even that concession is a LONG way from saying the high sec carebears are disposable.

My counter argument supporting my claim that they are a significant share of revenue is self-evident. CCP has been catering to them while ignoring loud and continuous chorus of hostility toward them.... Why would CCP cater to "there most disposable player base despite the anger this is causing some players? I think the obvious answer is that CCP does not consider them anything close to being a disposable player group.





The PLEX system is self regulating. Too many trying to buy PLEX with ISK, the price goes up to the point that you can't rind enough ISK to buy the PLEX... but at that same time, more people will spend real to buy a PLEX to trade for ISK to avoid grinding their own ISK. PLEX prices go too low, more people buy them to fund their accounts and more fewer people buy them with real.

There can't be more people funding their accounts with PLEX, then PLEX bought for real. There can't be more PLEX bought with real, then there are accounts bing funded with them.

So you want to minimise your own risk exposure, while forcing them to increase their own exposure? Highsec pvp hypocrisy.

Wars aren't clean, honorable or fair. Nothing hypocritical about reducing my own risk while maximising it for others - others who presumably consent to the war system because they signed up to form a corp, others who are free to use the same tactics I do.

Exactly. Critical to keeping highsec safe. EVE mustn't deviate from ~other MMOs~

Try to seperate the issue of people doing this, with the issue of the rules being badly designed in regards to war avoidance.

I don't have a problem with the people doing it. I run a highsec corp - with my corp ceo hat on, I have no qualms about dropping and reforming to avoid war. I recognize that other people do it too, to minimise their own risk: this is fine, it's a legitimate tactic like magical anchored smartbomb shield and convo spam in gatecamping.

I do have a problem with the rules. With my EVE player hat on, I think these rules are unhealthy for New Eden in their current state - even if changing the rules would adversely affect me.