EVE General Discussion

Verifiable facts? Please show us those facts?

Fact: A complaint was made about lack of manufacturing slots in 0.0.
Fact: Less that 10% of the slots in Delve are in use.
Fact: There is enough isk coming from Moon-goo to build 100's of stations, and upgrade them all.
Fact: 0.0 is supposed to require a costly investment to upgrade, due to all the isk spewing from moons.
Fact: People don't go to 0.0 because they simply don't want the conflict.
(This is the real problem, You and your friends want to dictate game play for these people, because you simply can't understand the fact that not everyone sees the game like you, or wants to play it like you.)
Fact: Large 0.0 entities still charge 10%-15% tax, even though they have more isk than they can possible spend in the lifetime of the game. (Why is this? Why are players such suckers that they are dumb enough to make other players rich?)

This is why I wouldn't go back to 0.0, it's simply a different kind of scam. Instead of taking everything you have, they simply get you to come down, and defend their space, so they can get richer, and hopefully you can make more isk than you can lose.
That's the life of the average 0.0 pubbie. Unless you are in one of the many pet alliances, and simply pay to be there, on top of paying taxes. Either way, very few average players get truly rich in 0.0, and that's a fact as well.

Would I like to see some improvements for 0.0? Sure, You should be able to upgrade stations for faster production.
But when CCP decided to buff moon-goo while at the same time nerfing the anoms that actually paid decent isk. I pretty much lost interest for anything 0.0.


Fact: I'm not pro Highsec, I'm simply not Pro null, because most of the people in null are lazier than those in Highsec.
You want more production, no one is stopping you from building it yourself....

There are 2 ways to make stuff in Nulsec

a PoS (not cheap, but needs much micromanagement)
an OP (very expensive, only 1 can be built)

in hisec an average system has maybe 5-6 stations .. use the SS provided by tippia to work it out exactly if you want.

Nulsec has 2 unique commodities
Moon Minerals
Morphite (never mined in j-space, so it may be found there aswell, but i dunno)

Trititanium forms the bulk % of all manufacturing needs, and is available everywhere, afaik the vast majority of all trit produced ingame originates in hisec.

The above is background info for you to think about.

There is a fixed upperlimit of available Manufacturing, Invention & Research opportunities in Nulsec.
The playerbase CANNOT get past that upperlimit, because there are only so many moons available for parking PoS's at.
Hisec exceeds that limit.

CCP need to redefine where that 'Industry' limit falls for nulsec, and it needs to redefined upwards, to equal its hisec equivalent.

That's another and fair point, but it's disconnected with the current "buff null industry, nerf everyone else" ideology.
It's disconnected because it's way more all encompassing to lay down a real foundation to let the Somalias grow into Chinas. The industry buff would be just a little bit of that.

In other words, ditch Dominion terrible mechanics and implement something different. Then, and only after that foundation is in place, go ahead and fill the gaps including industry.

Everytime i read this crap I want to reach through the computer scream and exact some justice in the name of truth.

Why do you people cling to this dumb idea? Is it not enough to I and people like me explain to you that we don't give a flip about what anyone does or where they play.

Hiding behind this belief isn't just intellecutally dishonest, it's somewhat corwardly in my honest opinion. You don't want to accept that people can have philosophical beliefs different from yous so you imagine false motivations in a way to salve your own egos.

Pitiful.





one day i hope this magical moon goo fairy everyone keeps talking about blesses me with a single isk.



Yea, no one is stopping anyone from building even more imperfect and insanely expensive stations as a solution to the "Everything is damn near free" of high sec....

This is another one of those false belief high sec people cling to, most likely in hopes of preserving the unbalanced gravy train CCP gave them.

I fail to see how any null sec alliance leader made high sec be so damn easy and lucrative that it's just easier to important everything rather than make it locally. I don't know how those magical null sec leaders made FIVE high sec station systems have more combined industrial capacity than ALL of SOV null sec.

The idea that "those meanie null sec people won;t let me in" is, frankly, a bit offensive. We're playing a game with certain hard wired rules (such as industry slots). We're saying that their are fundamental flaws with some of that structure, and we're glad CCP is finally going to address at least some of the issue, hopefully for the good of all, not just entrenched high sec interests.

They exist to allow carebears to largely go about their business so that they will continue to play the game. That is not an exploit. It is working as designed.

It is not "Highsec Online". It is EVE Online, and EVE Online has many different areas of space governed by very different game mechanics, designed to appeal to different play styles.

There is high sec for those looking to carebear, or those looking for limited engagements against others that are looking for limited engagements.

There is low sec for faction warfare and prating.

There is NPC null for pirating, fighting, roaming.

There is sov null for those looking to build empires.


I think the primary source of frustration comes from those that didn't find what they were looking for in the area it is meant to occur, and blame CCP's mechanics for it.

You go out to low looking for a fight, and get blobbed... so you come to high sec. But when you try to PvP other PvP corps, you lose.. so you start war dec'ing industrial corps. But, those industrialist carebears won't fight... so it is obviously CCP's fault and need to change game mechanics to force the carebears to give you the easy fights you want. Sorry, but any attempt to do that will result in those carebears quitting the game... so, you don't look in the mirror and realize it is your desires and expectations that are the problem... So much easier to mock the reality that carebears will quit if you attempt to force them to be easy targets.


Another source of frustration is with the whole high vs. null issue. And, I'm not going to say this one is not completely a fabrication like the "it is an exploit to drop to NPC corp to avoid war" one. Yes, game mechanics of null are a bug messed up and could use fixing. However, those fixes need to come within the realities of the game. CCP must keep high sec profitable and safe enough carebears to keep buying PLEX at a price that people are willing to drop real money on them. Null has the issue of rents being tied to the potential profitability of systems, so buffs to null income largely flow into the hands of the few that control the mega coalitions.



The other realty is, it is a lot harder for CCP to give definitive answers as to profitability and liveability of each area of space.

I'm all for null industry getting a boost, as a dabbler in lots of different things, including industry, I'd love to get in on fuelling the carnage. At the moment my greed and sense of adventure can't overcome the poor mining and the lack of industry slots, in short the lack of potential.

Null is for empire building, you can't build an empire without industry and markets.

As an interesting thought experiment, do you think much more industry would be conducted in null if it was somehow 100% absolutely safe to mine and transport materials there? If the answer is no, then nullsec industry is certainly too weak.

Whereas my understanding is that excluding safety issues, nullsec ratting is superior to highsec level 4s. As is PI, exploration, Incursions, and almost all other pve activities. As it should be.