EVE General Discussion

Funny, I've also been advocating for the POS update that should hopefully make putting up hundreds of POSes in any space not a problem because they can be individual assets instead of corporate assets.

But the simple fact is that *one* titan production line could be instead *60* module production lines. We aren't talking about hundreds of POSes to meet the demand, we are talking dozens.

It's an economic decision not to do that, and by my reckoning it is a wise one, because you can only anchor CSAA's in sovereign nullsec systems, and there isn't enough demand for the output of T1 and T2 production lines in nullsec to make it worth maintaining a tower under the current system just to produce those.

I haven't seen any proposed set of changes that would change that math other than improving POSes for everyone, so that individual industrialists can make the choice to take the risk of putting those manufacturing lines out there without having to rely on chokepoint individuals with the permissions to manage the POSes.

If they weren't a bunch of elitists who consider everybody else a lesser, weren't always in the "patient teacher trying to educate dumbs" attitude, if some of them did not spam "we are here to ruin your game" for years...

... you know these things kind of stick on the general playerbase and then it becomes just a Karma is a b!tch and bites back factor.

To recap:

- A change (once again) to how sov mechanics work is in order and should be the first to be implemented since its effect ripple on everything else. Most of all, until there's not a player created way to ensure the basic pre-requisites to create a strong player created industry and even alliance empire, it's futile to talk about buffs or nerfs. Otherwise we just risk getting a player driven low sec, that is an industry failure. Plenty of slots and refineries and all in the same system (basically what are the current requests). Yet it's still a failure.

- A buff to null sec industry is long overdue. Both as number of slots and refinery efficiency. They'll soon discover how nice it plays with the high end minerals values tanking ever further but still...

- A change (I can't even call it a nerf) to hi sec slots for *not newbie* players to pay as much as POS owners seems a first and quick to implement step towards bringing fairness. Fairness not between null sec and high but between any POS owners vs NPC station users. It's important to distinguish which game mechanics favor whom.

If certain talking mouths presented this as a POS owner vs NPC station freeloaders argument and not as a null sec vs hi sec, they'd have gained total support by many others who indeed poured in money and effort and risk (at least of wardec) to field their own structures.


The wrong way to do it: put it all into some James315-esque, look "up to down" ideology blurb and start smacking everybody else who don't blindly agree with it.

What is this objectivity you speak of? Heretic! Burn him at the stake!

We will be quite happy with equality with high sec.

I understand the desire to move away from shooting structures. However, shooting structures provides advantages I've not seen in other replacement suggestions.
1) Ties the invader down to a fixed location for time for the defenders to respond.
2) Reinforcement timers ensure you don't go to sleep with everything okay, only to wake up 8 hours later to find your system lost.
3) Reinforcement timers give you a specific time for something to happen, giving both sides opportunity to prepare a fleet for the real fight that determines sov.
4) Hard to exploit.

I've heard suggestions such as PVP (exploitable by killing your own alts), plexing (more boring than shooting structures), and a few others that I see bing a disaster. So, what other suggestions are out there?





Slots won't drive down mineral prices. Perfect refine is already available at outpost. Just have a hassle of transporting those mins to another station or POS.




Not so easy when POS fuels are variable, POSes may have things other than manufacturing slots. Different race towers can have different number of online modules/slots.

Some "approximate" value would be good.

Over my frozen corpse.

(I tend to not undock)

I have exposed them several times even in this thread. Let's say that they are more "radical" than most would like, they involve mechanics (explained in there too) making sec status a gradual thing, unlocking features the lowest sec you go to.
Call it "liquid sec status".




Bolded the part that may affect prices a ton.
Not sure if you have tried continuously carrying a medium corp minerals production 5-6 jumps away. It's not something you do in a badger. You do it in ships that involve true risk and costs.
It's true that blue-land tends to be relatively safe but it's not *that* safe to lazily hop around with a 1.5 to 7B ship. That lack of laziness has a cost and also a cost of risk.





I also covered this in past posts. Are you in Gallente space? Then NPC slots would cost something like a moving average of Gallente ice based fuels. This would also entice people to stop camping The Forge, as the slots in there might be more expensive than Gallente's plus transport costs (plus standings grinding costs).

I'm all for some buffs to 0.0 Industry, but it won't bring any additional industrialists to 0.0.
But you can always make more alts right?

Why would you go 5-6 jumps? You can set up manufacturing POSes in the same system as your refining outpost. You can have a manufacturing outpost in the system right next door to your refining outpost. JF going one system from outpost to outpost is mega easy, super cheap and insanely safe (for all but the cyno alt that is in a rookie ship that you intentionally blow up seconds after he lights the cyno anyway)....





I also covered this in past posts. Are you in Gallente space? Then NPC slots would cost something like a moving average of Gallente ice based fuels. This would also entice people to stop camping The Forge, as the slots in there might be more expensive than Gallente's plus transport costs (plus standings grinding costs).[/quote]

So, are you assuming the POS has nothing but slots?
hmmm,

Let's say a a gallente POS has 3,750,000 power and an equipment assembly array needs 90,000 so can hold 40 arrays. Those 40 arrays have 6 slots each, with a base time multiplier of .75. So, 40 * 6 /.75 = 320 station slot equivilants. 30 * 24 * 320 = 230,400 slot hours a month.

What is the cost of running a large tower now? 40 per hour * 24 hours * 30 days * 13,000 isk = 375 million ISk a month?

375 million isk / 230 K slot hours = 1630 per slot hour?

Ummm... okay. So, instead of station slosts being 1000 an hour we increase it to 1630 an hour?

Wow... big change there. [/sarcasm]