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Explaining DPS vs. Alpha Strike
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Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#1 - 2011-09-06 18:32:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Eternum Praetorian

The Principle Is Pretty Simple…



The long standing confusion about these two things, stems from the way that EFT (and other MMO’s) calculate damage. Your weapons have two distinct properties 1. They Deal Damage and 2. They Have A Cycle Rate.


The Confusion Is Coming From Damage Dealt Vs. Cycle Rate…







George Foreman Vs Jackie Chan


Quote:
Some weapons in EVE Online hit like George Foreman (like a ton of bricks)
As soon as they blink green they have a huge damage output compared to other weapons. The thing is this... THEY ALSO HAVE A REALLY SLOW CYCLE RATE.


So HUGE Damage Output
But Reloads REALLY slowly (like a cannon)





Other Weapons Are Like Jackie Chan...

Quote:
Lighter strikes that occur REALLY FAST and in quick succession. The weapon’s Damage Output is lower but IT HAS A REALLY FAST CYCLE RATE (like a machine gun)



This Is Why High Alpha Weapons Do Low DPS… It's Do To Their Slower Cycle Rate (Or Their Slower Reload Time) See? Big smile







DPS (Damage Per Second) Is Only An Average Of The Damage Done Vs. Time.
It Is Not An Acurate Representation Of The Actual Damage Output Of The Weapon & That Is Why We Also Have The Term “Alpha Strike”

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Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#2 - 2011-09-06 18:33:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Eternum Praetorian
So Which One Is Better?
Can Anyone Answer This Question Without Getting Trolled To Hell & Back?

Sure! Why Not! Big smileBig smileBig smile







Let’s Compare Two Hurricanes With Perfect Skills


Both Hurrucanes Have 3 Gyros and both are armed with the biggest guns that they can carry, 720mm Howitzer Artillery II’s and 425mm Autocannon II’s (both are loaded with republic fleet fustion)



Autocannon Hurricane = 600 DPS (1,400 Alpha) Cycle Rate 2.3
Artillery Hurricane = 450 DPS (3,900 Alpha) Cycle Rate 8.2






Quote:

The First "Alpha" Shot - The First 8.2 Seconds Of The Fight

So my Artillery shoots ONCE in 8.2 seconds (so that's… 3,900 TOTAL Damage Done)
Where as my Autocannons Shoots 3 Times in 8.2 seconds (1,400 Alpha x 3 = 4,200 TOTAL Damage Done)





Quote:
On My Second "Alpha" Shot - The First 16.4 Seconds Of The Fight

In TWO shots (16.4 Seconds) Your Artillery does 7,800 TOTAL Damage
Where as your Autocannons Cycle 7 times and deal 9,800 TOTAL Damage








So The Answer To The Question Of Which One Is Better IS!! Drum Roll........................
"How long do you expect your fight to last?"



Quote:
If your target is going to die in less then 8 seconds (ofc we are not taking into account range and tracking) Alpha Strike is better, where as if you expect the fight to last more then 12 seconds Autocannons will be better. Why? Because Autocannons can do the same amount of DPS in 12 seconds and MORE in 16 seconds then Artillery can in the same time frame.

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Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#3 - 2011-09-06 18:33:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Eternum Praetorian
In the end, you can avoid all of this math and nerdy MMO science and simply look at what everyone else is doing...




Are the people shoot at you using Hybrids, Beam Laser, Artillery and Cruise Missiles, or are they using Blasters, Pulse Lasers, Autocannons and Torpedos? Whatever it is that they are currently using, they are using it because it has ultimately proven itself to work better over the years.




Quote:
* Expect longer range weapons in Null Sec because of engagements at long ranges, warp bubbles and massive blobs (Alpha is good here)
* Expect shorter range weapons in Empire and Low Sec because of the shorter ranges involved and station games.

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Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#4 - 2011-09-06 18:33:39 UTC
Reserved.

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Dantaeri
The Broken Visage
#5 - 2011-09-07 01:09:21 UTC
Repeating what I had replied on the old forums:

Quote:


I would like to add to this on the subject of nullsec and alpha strike.

Practically all fights in nullsec involve the use of logistics ships, which repair other ships, greatly increasing their survivability. The problem here is that the repairs are not instant. There are several delays, the most important of which is the human one. It takes a moment for a logistics pilot to see that a pilot is taking damage and activate the repair modules. However, once those repairs are active, they can make it very difficult to kill the enemy ships, so alpha strike provides a solution: do enough damage in that first few seconds that it destroys the ship before the logistics have a chance to respond.

As an example: lets say that your fleet can do 10,000 dps, while the enemy logistics can provide repairs for 20,000 incoming dps. Based on these numbers alone, you would have no chance. Now say the average ship has 50,000 effective hp. Your fleet fits their ships so that the fleet combined can do 75,000 aplha damage, so that when you engage, your fleet destroys each enemy ship in one volley, so that the logistics have no chance to repair, thus winning you the fight when you would have lost otherwise.



(sorry for stealing your thread, just thought it was worth saying ^.^)

-Dante
Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#6 - 2011-09-07 02:02:50 UTC
All intelligent input is appreciated Lol


So Thx!

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Emiko Luan
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2011-09-07 04:20:38 UTC
Good thread very informative.

+welcome to my world+ http://emikochan13.wordpress.com http://emikochan13.deviantart.com
Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2011-09-07 12:49:11 UTC
A while back someone was asking about alpha vs DPS and hulkageddon suicide ganking stunts. I'

d researched this stuff a bit so I dug up the old post, which seems to fit your DPS vs Alpha topic a bit - with respect to gankers in highsec. They were wondering why someone would chose a Catalyst over a Thrasher for this use so I figured I'd explain it with some numbers.


Quote:
First - you don't think DPS nor Alpha. if DPS -- the usual PvP mindset. if Alpha - well a thrasher fit with 280mm howitzers would win - around 2x the alpha of a Catalyst but 7 seconds per shot (overheated)? ... Short ranged guns overheat for damage, Long range guns overheat for rate-of-fire.

Start thinking Volleys before CONCORD. With all results truncated. (so .9 is lost -- they got you before it turned...)

Examples of what I mean using the Catalyst based upon the 3 gun sizes - T1 - (overheated guns across the board - you're dead anyway).

Neutron I - 3.5s "base" -- all 5's: 2.607s (cycle time - all 5's will be used).
Ion I - 3s "base" -- 2.234s
Electron I - 2s "base" - 1.489s

If concord's response time in that system is 12 seconds:
Neutron I - 4 volleys - 3016 VOLLEY damage - DPS "should" put it at 3470 - an almost 9% damage loss due to volley timing.
Ion I - 5 volleys - 3030 damage
Electron I - 8 volleys - 3016 (same as the neutron)

----- As can be seen, it's pretty trivial what kind of gun you choose to fit if your shooting for 12 seconds.

Concord in 15 seconds:
Neutron I - 5 volleys - 3770
Ion I - 6 volleys - 3636
Electron I - 10 volleys - 3770

Concord in 16 seconds:
Neutron I - 6 volleys - 4524
Ion I - 7 volleys - 4224
Electron I - 10 volleys - 3770

etc...

Just some trivial math for you to look at with respect to the fitting you decide upon. Look at the volley timing and how fast you can expect concord to show up.


Many folks think in terms of "biggest hitting gun" but when you start looking at volley limits and the like, some "valuations" change.