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ECM drones/ECM ships need to be nerfed.
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Rage MorbidCloud
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-03-08 05:36:00 UTC
What ever happened to the discussion of fixing ECM ships/ECM drones. These new ECCM skills are useless and eccm modules are also useless.
Is ccp so in love with the falcon and ecm drones that they are afraid of touching it.
How does it make sense or how is it fair for a falcon to decloak at 90km and get a perma jam. No stacking penalties on ecm modules.
You killed the asb, gonna nerf links off grid/pos, introduced a new a.a.r which is pretty much useless.
When are we gonna hear the solution to perma jamming falcons.
Gerrick Palivorn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2 - 2013-03-08 09:56:33 UTC
ECCM Skills are pretty awesome, but that would require you to actually train them to at least 4.

What evidence can you give to suggest that Falcons are still as powerful as they were pre-retribution?

Making claims based on zero evidence presented in the OP only opens you up to trolling and flaming.

MMOs come and go, but Eve remains.  -Garresh-
JD No7
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#3 - 2013-03-08 12:50:10 UTC
Would be happy for just the ECM drones to be removed. They are 100% lazy mode and their effectiveness is utterly out of whack with all other EW drones whichare quite frankly, useless.

It all boils back to the random mechanic of course, and the fact that each drone is effectively a module that gets it's own jam chance every few seconds.

No issues with Falcons etc as such. they die like any other ship.
Sean Parisi
Blackrise Vanguard
#4 - 2013-03-08 12:55:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Sean Parisi
ECM is a fine mechanic and working as intended. Apply ECCM properly, buy an implant set and train the sensor compensation skills.

ECM Drones should be changed to temporarily drop lock (Able to relock directly after) but not jam out like regular ECM modules. Why? In order to do that you should either compromise your fit or bring a completely different ship to the field. Though ECM drones can help you escape from a tackler as all his friends are landing.


Second off, if you know anything about ECM ships - they die if you sneeze on them. Literally, put some drones on the falcon and watch it leave field.
Hakan MacTrew
Konrakas Forged
Solyaris Chtonium
#5 - 2013-03-08 13:05:49 UTC
ECM drones are already individually weak. Do you have a suggestion as to how they should be changed?

As for the ships, the Blackbird already got rebalanced, is there a problem with it at the moment? The T2 rebalance has yet to begin, so the Falcon will be looked at then. Again though, what exactly do you want changed?

Also, how does a Falcon get a perma jam on anyone at 90km with no range bonus?

ECM with stacking penalties... I don't see how under the current mechanic that could possibly work, seeing as each ECM works individually and they don't stack. If they did stack and their strength was added the same as other stacking stats, perma jams would probably be even more likely. Can you suggest an alternative?

As for OGB, I hope they sort it out soon. As do many, many of us.
The ASB is dead? Since when? How DoD that get killed? Last I checked its still almost a mandatory solo shield tanking module.
The AAR does work, and its down to time to prove its worth.

Friends
Iminent Penance
Your Mom's Boyfriends
#6 - 2013-03-08 13:18:03 UTC
I dont get it, what's wrong with me targeting something and them not being able to target me back?

Seems fair to me, noob
Jacid
Corvix.
#7 - 2013-03-08 16:38:35 UTC
ECM drones are fine, you want a counter bring fof missile or smartbombs they are awesome. ECM is powerful but completely random and the ECCM and supporting skills do more then balance it out. As for ECM ships well with the exception of the scorp they are all paper thin and can be taken out with a dirty look in most cases.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#8 - 2013-03-08 17:04:03 UTC
Rage MorbidCloud wrote:
What ever happened to the discussion of fixing ECM ships/ECM drones. These new ECCM skills are useless and eccm modules are also useless.
Is ccp so in love with the falcon and ecm drones that they are afraid of touching it.
How does it make sense or how is it fair for a falcon to decloak at 90km and get a perma jam. No stacking penalties on ecm modules.
You killed the asb, gonna nerf links off grid/pos, introduced a new a.a.r which is pretty much useless.
When are we gonna hear the solution to perma jamming falcons.
Where is your evidence to prove Falcons perma jam at 90km?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Vayn Baxtor
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2013-03-08 17:16:54 UTC
The point of asb should be the "ancillary" part of its name. Somewhere, it was more of a "primary", most of the time being the better or easier choice over the standard shield booster. Plus it was making pvp dull, even if you could kill anybody once you chewed through their asb charges.

As for AAR, it is fresh out of the oven. Best is to post in the sticky thread about the concerns. But bear in mind, having god-tank is just boring as hell. Should leave that for WoW.


One one point I agree though, regarding ECM and Falcon. The range is still quite extreme - provided the "100km permajam" part is really that true. Only had close engagements with Falcons some ages ago, so I can't entirely give a decent (counter)proposal.

Falcon is already a cloaky ninja Recon, so somewhere, if something should be done, then it shouldn't have it that easy with jamming at such extreme ranges; meaning it should really not have that much of an optimal range.

I would say permajamming at and beyond 50km should really be something for Blackbird and the Scorpion, while Falcon is for the ninja ECM part.


What makes Falcon more likely capable of permajamming is its bonus to the actual ECM jamming strength. But that is the problem, nerfing that will make the ship more or less pointless. In terms of Tiericide, one would have to really come up with decent suggestions.
Falcon is a favorable ship as one can scout as well as bring amazing surprise to fights with its crowd controlling abilities. I must say though that seven Medslots are quite a lot. But here is where people will scream that they need it for tank AND ecm, so changing anything on a Falcon will really be tough.


Somewhere, one side is going to have to put up with changes/nerfs/buffs and "Deal With It".

Using tablet, typoes are common and I'm not going to fix them all.

Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2013-03-08 17:57:57 UTC
The only change ECM needs it to go from jam all ability to lock to break a lock per successful cycle.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Seranova Farreach
Biomass Negative
#11 - 2013-03-08 20:01:17 UTC
ECM drones? i raise you 1 medium smartbomb.
falcon? it can only hold x amount of jams so make sure you got high alpha to get it off the field i fyou got enough people to outnumber the jamming moduals.

[u]___________________ http://i.imgur.com/d9Ee2ik.jpg[/u]
Sentinel zx
#12 - 2013-03-08 20:06:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Sentinel zx
maybe we could also solve this different

by allowing Drones attack with out lock the target, by just simple clicking the right mouse button on the target and clicking attack

in revers the Drones would slower targeting the target
this would make also sense why gallente using Drones against caldari because drones are not effected by ecm

how ever i would give the caldari ecm ships a second bonus for smartbombs usage 10% capacitor use reduction per level
for defense

sorry for bad english
Gawain Edmond
Khanid Bureau of Industry
#13 - 2013-03-08 20:18:55 UTC
drones do attack even if you never lock someone you have to have them launched set to aggressive and they'll attack the first thing that does an aggressive act towards you unless you've already told them to attack someone
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2013-03-08 22:12:09 UTC
Whine and butthurt on the forums needs to be nerfed.

It's funny how those people who lost the least (like a km) whine the loudest.
Vayn Baxtor
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2013-03-08 22:32:34 UTC
It is hard to tell where to draw the lines since a Recon Ship like Falcon is likely to have the upper hand in 1vs1 engagements. Clearly, the game and its confrontations are quite limited to do anything without whine and anti-whine whiners.

Using tablet, typoes are common and I'm not going to fix them all.

Lin Gerie
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2013-03-08 22:47:55 UTC
ECM does need an overhaul and I love using ECM.

I think the way it is handled could be changed by affecting a few things, none of which are their ability to actually jam.
If we adjust the cycle time and the active time of ECM it could change a lot of things and give the ECM ships a much stronger focus making them more desirable for ECM then putting ECM on any random ship or drone.

Currently ECM has a % chance to jam and when jammed the effects last for 20 seconds with the cycle timer equal to those 20 seconds. ECM should have a smaller cycle time then jam time with only the best modules and ships with bonuses able to perma jam. This would apply to drones as well.

In this example a T1 ECM module would have similar jamming potential as it currently does, however the timer would be 5-8 seconds, up to maybe 10 with skills and back to 13 with the right ship. The cycle on this module however would remain at 20 seconds.

A T2 module could have the same curve and this is when specific ECM ships would shine as they would still have short timers but their jam times would be longer as well, perhaps even over the cycle timer allowing them to stagger their ECM or possibly spread it over multiple targets if one is rejammed with extra modules to spare. This adds a certain level of skill both in game training wise AND pilot wise to ECM.

Changing up drones would focus on drone boats that already recieve the 10% bonus per level only now it will also apply to ECM drones. Furthermore they can add T2, faction and or other drones along with ECM drone modules that boost the ECM power of drones. The ECM skills that boost jam time would also affect these drones so that there is a fair cross over.

It will mean that pilots without strong ECM skills wont be as obnoxious because of luck as a fully trained ECM pilot, but a fully trained and smart ECM pilot would be a nightmare on the battlefield.