These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

ORE ship reimbursement and upcoming expansion

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Xen Solarus
Furious Destruction and Salvage
#41 - 2013-03-08 10:12:55 UTC
Already seen quite a few threads regarding this, and like all the times its happened in the past, CCP isn't likely to refund you any skillpoints.

What about the itty 5? Bet loads of people spent the weeks required to train that. That too is going to be made redundant by the changes. But, we've got no choice but to just go with CCP. Thats how they roll.

Post with your main, like a BOSS!

And no, i don't live in highsec.  As if that would make your opinion any less wrong.  
Djana Libra
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#42 - 2013-03-08 10:36:31 UTC
yes I to want SP back because I trained for a ship and use it outside the intended use....

you could have just trained for a freighter...
Whitehound
#43 - 2013-03-08 10:54:49 UTC
People who are not affected by it - the majority - do not want you to have a reimbursement. It is the standard trolling.

Technically is nothing wrong with giving you your skill points back and allowing you to reallocate these.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#44 - 2013-03-08 11:05:40 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
People who are not affected by it - the majority - do not want you to have a reimbursement. It is the standard trolling.

Technically is nothing wrong with giving you your skill points back and allowing you to reallocate these.



Except that it would open the biggest pandora's box of reimbursement demands the game, or probably any online game has ever seen. You sir, are blinder than an unborn mole, if you cannot see that. From a TECHNICAL standpoint, reimbursing skillpoints, where no skills were removed from the game, would be highly destructive.
Whitehound
#45 - 2013-03-08 11:08:06 UTC
Arronicus wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
People who are not affected by it - the majority - do not want you to have a reimbursement. It is the standard trolling.

Technically is nothing wrong with giving you your skill points back and allowing you to reallocate these.



Except that it would open the biggest pandora's box of reimbursement demands the game, or probably any online game has ever seen. You sir, are blinder than an unborn mole, if you cannot see that. From a TECHNICAL standpoint, reimbursing skillpoints, where no skills were removed from the game, would be highly destructive.

Oh shut up. There, box closed.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Dave Stark
#46 - 2013-03-08 11:20:08 UTC
oh look, this thread again.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#47 - 2013-03-08 11:20:54 UTC
Whether or not you use the skills you have trained out of your free will doesn't make a cause for reimbursement. It's your own personal choice not to mine even after training for a mining ship.

I trained Orca to haul stuff and ships for pvp, and close wormholes. I dealt with the annoying barge V by buying a rettie from a friend, and mining enough ore to pay for the Orca. And I still have the skills to mine whenever I feel like it. Granted, that's not very often :D, but CCP is not responsible for my gameplay preferences.

.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#48 - 2013-03-08 11:21:56 UTC
Whether or not you use the skills you have trained out of your free will doesn't make a cause for reimbursement. It's your own personal choice not to mine even after training for a mining ship.

I trained Orca to haul stuff and ships for pvp, and close wormholes. I dealt with the annoying barge V by buying a rettie from a friend, and mining enough ore to pay for the Orca. And I still have the skills to mine whenever I feel like it. Granted, thatoften, but CCP is not responsible for my gameplay preferences.

.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#49 - 2013-03-08 11:23:20 UTC
No need to fix these forums. Working as intended.

.
Xearal
Dead's Prostitutes
The Initiative.
#50 - 2013-03-08 11:28:26 UTC
OP, I can see your point in having the situation where you're partially done training up for that orca, and now see that a whole bunch of skills you already trained for it have become unnessesary and basicly now 'wasted'.

Think of this as the price of progress.. the new ways that ships are skilled for is a log more intuitive, and productive than the old way. However, just like with any dynamic system where you change the parameters, some parts of the system will suffer from such changes, even if on the overall it improves. You just happened to hold the short end of the stick in this case.

However, letting people file reimbursement requests to fix all the little bits of said dynamic system ( Eve ), and adjucating if they are 'valid' or not is a huuuge pandora's box you really don't want CCP to open, as it will create a MASSIVE workload to process all such requests, more than working out, planning and implementing these changes in themselves are costing.
A blanked 'reimburse' of all skills that are affected by this so people can reallocate them to what they want is also not something you want, because this will again open another pandora's box where there's a huge amount of people who now have unallocated skillpoints they can spend on whatever they want, creating a mass change in what people fly/do.
This reimburse would massively benefit all the old vets who trained up said skills ages ago for their shinies, and now can spend them on even more different shinies. Creating another gap between newer players who this is supposed to benefit vs the old vets that have a zillion points in everything.

When I first started Eve, I trained up for mining ships, which I now never use because I have better/more interesting things to do than stare at asteroids all day. If I were to be reimbursed, I would be dropping those mining skills for more pew pew, or other skills that I need for my current activities. Making me suddenly leap ahead of anyone who is just starting out in such a field compared to me, because I have those unallocated SPs, and they don't.
Thus, I would be given an even longer end of the stick than you're getting the short end. As I would have had the benefit of the old orca, the mining skills etc.. in the past, and am now free to reinvest that old investment of time into new ventures.

I'm closing on the 71M skillpoints mark, but if I had t redo my character from scratch, I would have made a whooole lot of different choices on the skills I've been training the last 4 years. Any reimburse of such old skills would only give me a massive benefit, as it would allow me to 'correct' such 'mistakes'.

A newer player however, would not get such a benefit, as they would not have the previous 'sunk' investment of skillpoints to reinvest, nor the benefit of being able to reinvest them into new ventures.

Does railgun ammunition come in Hollow Point?
Asmodai Xodai
#51 - 2013-03-08 11:40:15 UTC
Quote:
If you continue now, you will be paying the exact amount that you thought you would for the ability you wanted.
If (assuming there's more than 17d-overlap left in your training) you stop now and resume after the Summer expansion, you will be paying less than you were willing to and thought you would for the ability you wanted.
If there's less than 17d-overlap left in your training, then you have 2-3 months to complete that 2 weeks of training and end up paying the exact amount that you thought you would for the ability you wanted.

You are either going to be paying the exact amount you were willing to pay, or less than you were willing to pay.

What other people will be paying is entirely irrelevant. Again, does the supermarket send you a check when Milk goes on sale the day after you buy a gallon?


If you confuse "understanding the concept of sunk costs" with "being a masochist," then I guess you've got me pegged.


You keep quoting 'sunk costs' like it is some kind of magical term or something. It sounds like you just got out of a business class. 'Sunk costs' is irrelevant here, because I'm not asking what decision I should make going forward from this moment.

As to the remainder of what you wrote, I will try once again. Same exact scenario we have now, but let's change some parameters.

1. First, let's put YOUR skin in the game. It isn't me that is affected by this, but YOU.

2. You didn't just lose a month or two skilling into something. Let's say you lost 2 full years. Yes, two full years because CCP came out with some new ultra-mega titan, and you wanted it. You teched straight to it, foregoing everything else you could have teched (economy, cruisers, battleships, etc). You stayed in frigates so you could tech to this.

3. The skill points which went into this ultra-mega titan can't go into anything else. They are useless outside of the mega-titan.

4. You aren't some veteran player who has teched to everything else he could possibly want and has nothing else he could throw skill points into (in other words, you aren't someone who stands to lose little if skill points are thrown away). You are a newer player who has teched to virtually nothing.

Now, when you are a few weeks away from getting into this death star, CCP pulls the rug out from under you, and lets all players get into it inside of a week.

All I did here was take the same situation and adjust variables (length of time spent teching, etc) to try and find out if this makes any difference to you or not. If it does, then we agree and you are simply quibbling about details thinking they have an effect on the general principle when they don't. If it doesn't, you are a troll, an alien, or a masochist.
Dave Stark
#52 - 2013-03-08 11:42:46 UTC
hey ccp, i trained X skill even though i don't use it, can i get the SP reimbursed because i feel i should be entitled to have it refunded for no real reason what so ever other than i was stupid enough to train a skill i'm never going to use.
Whitehound
#53 - 2013-03-08 11:53:01 UTC
Roime wrote:
Whether or not you use the skills you have trained out of your free will doesn't make a cause for reimbursement. It's your own personal choice not to mine even after training for a mining ship.

True.

Only is CCP going to change it, because CCP thinks these skill choices are unnecessary.

Many players knew about the lack of necessity, but accepted it as a part of the requirement for getting into an Orca, or else could they not have gotten into it. There was simply no choice for them.

The reason for why a reimbursement should be given is not just because a few players want it, this sure will always be the case when skills change, but because CCP is making this change and it invalidates players' skill choices of the past.

I am sure many Orca pilots will have trained Exhumers I in addition just to profit from this in their own way. These players should not get a reimbursement as they not only accepted it but used it for further training. Only those who did not should be allowed to reallocate some of their skill points. It is likely a very small group of people and also the reason why the discussion on this is largely biased, because most of who post here will not be part of this group.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#54 - 2013-03-08 12:28:44 UTC
This topic got dicussed to exhaustion in another thread,
thus this one should be locked.

Not that i have a say in this anyway. People should get punished for not using the search function.

No amount of words will get you skillpoints!
brinelan
#55 - 2013-03-08 12:41:54 UTC
you are complaining about a bit over 37 days of training to get into a ship where the skill training requirements changes were discussed in detail about 30 days ago, and the forums exploded with threads exactly like this about 30 days ago... and the dev blog explained in detail about the answer to your very post...
Danks
Fat Angry Toe Tappin Inbreds
#56 - 2013-03-08 12:50:30 UTC
Asmodai Xodai wrote:

First, let's put YOUR skin in the game. It isn't me that is affected by this, but YOU.


Hi! I am also affected by this. Well, my alt is. I do not feel there should be a reimbursement of these skills. Just because they no longer apply to a certain ship does not make them irrelevant.

I also agree that a reimbursement would open up a ****** can of worms that no one really wants.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#57 - 2013-03-08 13:10:56 UTC
Asmodai Xodai wrote:
As to the remainder of what you wrote, I will try once again. Same exact scenario we have now, but let's change some parameters.

2. You didn't just lose a month or two skilling into something. Let's say you lost 2 full years. Yes, two full years because CCP came out with some new ultra-mega titan, and you wanted it. You teched straight to it, foregoing everything else you could have teched (economy, cruisers, battleships, etc). You stayed in frigates so you could tech to this.

3. The skill points which went into this ultra-mega titan can't go into anything else. They are useless outside of the mega-titan.

…and you're already off the rails by discussing a scenario that is in no way related to the Orca change.

Quote:
All I did here was take the same situation and adjust variables (length of time spent teching, etc) to try and find out if this makes any difference to you or not.

No, what you did was alter the scenario to something that has never happened in the game and which becomes so hypothetical and so lacking in detail as to provide no grounds for determining what would be a reasonable response.
Wacktopia
Fleet-Up.com
Keep It Simple Software Group
#58 - 2013-03-08 13:19:35 UTC
No skill point reimbursement. Ever.

You train a skill at a time for a reason and that's the end of it.

Kitchen sink? Seriousy, get your ship together -  Fleet-Up.com
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#59 - 2013-03-08 13:38:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Mallak Azaria
Xen Solarus wrote:
What about the itty 5? Bet loads of people spent the weeks required to train that. That too is going to be made redundant by the changes. But, we've got no choice but to just go with CCP. Thats how they roll.


Actually it won't be redundant at all. The itty V will still be more awesome than the others when you have the gallente industrial skill trained to 5 & it will be awful if you only have it trained to 1. Having a race specific industrial skill also allow you to train for freighters.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Asmodai Xodai
#60 - 2013-03-08 13:38:53 UTC
I guess these forums are dominated by idiots or trolls. So I'm done here. Good day.