EVE General Discussion

Once again read what's written: "most are stupid drawbacks indeed".

Actually I am surprised none of you super-pro null guys ever mentioned how SH!TTY is to live at a null or WH POS, I hated the terrible tortures tied with fitting and un(packaging) ships in null sec so much that I did not even feel the research slots issue compared to that.


To return to the reply: having 4 office slots and whatever is irrelevant to the background principle.

In facit it is your choice (like it was MY choice and I ACCEPTED it without crying later) to go there despite the limitations, the limitations did not rain on you like a storm on a clear sky day they were well evident before hand.

There has not been a "breach of contract" by CCP, CCP are not due to refund you for your choices.

As I said pages ago, CCP hopefully will greatly improve the null sec facilities but that's an act of kindness (and business savy) off them, not a forcibly due act.

You are not entitled to what you were not promised to begin with.

Yes hi seccers for some reason got more, too much more and EvE is unfair, cold and harsh and all that stuff.

My medicine for hi sec is known and bitter, but at least it's fair because everybody would be under the same rules.

Just wondering -- why does null need to meet or exceed all other space in every last way?

I mean they have the highest NPC bounty income, largest quantity of "low quality" ores, larges quantity of 'high quality" ores, so on and so forth.

So why do they need every last aspect of the game made easier and more profitable than all other space?

Won't that eliminate any and all reasons to ever actually trade for value vs "dump off" goods to other space?

Don't you think it's rather dishonest to say that we're asking for " every last aspect of the game made easier and more profitable than all other space" when 10 years of building outposts in sov 0.0 has given us just 3% of the facilities that hi-sec enjoys for free?

wow again with the "i am too rich and too leet-industrialist to care either way, but think of the newbies".
the proposed nerfs will be no worse than mission loot drops, and the null anomaly nerf and drone poo in null, incursion nerf, and so on.

both sides just need to stop using the newbie card.

Sadly I wish I was so altruist to fullfill the "but think of the newbies".
I think of my future too, and a lot. I am TERRIFIED by my past experiences, investing years in MMOs that all tanked when they stopped bringing in new blood. So yes, newbies are really my obsession, I don't want to have wasted another 4+ years in a MMO for nothing.

I believe what he was actually doing was using the same logic and arguments you support against you. The argument you agreed with was don't improve industry in null and instead make null players go to highsec to do what they want. He's asking if you'd be all right with the same attitude being applied to YOU. Lets force you to go to nullsec to do what you want to do.

Null HAS a working industry. You null bears seem to think that you need the best version of every aspect of the game available in your own back yard. That's perfectly fine with me. You all want to be special snowflakes and be above the rest of the population, I'm fine with that too.

Giving null their own currency solves all the issues at hand. You're effectively cut off from dependence on high sec industry, logistics problems are eliminated, and you're still free to build the player-based economy that you should be building anyway, but aren't.

doesn't it also need morphite?

You are sorely mistaken. Yes, there is supercap industry in Null, and other such massive undertakings, however, a small or medium sized industry setup will fail miserably there. Not because it can't be done, but because compared to High sec, everything is just worse.

1) Risk
In high sec, you are under the protectin of CONCORD, your assets are for the most part all in stations, the only assets you have that are continually 'at risk' are your POS facilities for extra ME, PE, and Copy slots. However, they also fall under the banner of CONCORD, requiring a 24 hours spool up to be put at risk(ie. wardec), plenty of time to take them out of space and put them safely in a station until things blow over.
In Null sec, you either have your main assets in a station, which can become inaccessible all of a sudden due to politics, or under serious threat during an invasion. Or In a POS. The POS can be attacked at any time, and if it's put in reinforce, you will not be able to retrieve said assets, unless you successfully fend of the 2nd round of fighting.
As such, your BPO's ( the most important investment for an industrialist ), will be at far greater risk than in high sec.
Now, this isn't so bad on it's own.. however..

2) Logistics
In high sec, you have easy access to trade hubs where you can quickly buy materials, and sell product. Moving these is an easy and quite safe task, requiring little efford or cost.
In Null sec, your local market is far smaller than in empire, meaning that a lot of your product needs to be shipped out to other hubs in the area, this is not without risk, as you could be killed anywhere along the way. Moving things in large quantities would require a Jump Freighter, requiring additional costs in fuel, as a freighter is simply too big and easy target to risk.
Getting your materials for production is a similar matter, you cannot simply go to your local hub, and quickly get what you need.
A lot of the things you need will be unavailable or low in supply, thus requiring you to make them yourself, or import them from Empire, at again, additional costs and risks.

3) Costs
Manufacturing in Highsec requires very little in costs, just the costs of your local manufacturing station's service fee and you're done. As these are abundant all over the place, and moving a few jumps to get to a place where you can setup production immediately if your main station is unavailable, is a piece of cake.
In nullsec, all station manufacturing slots are very busy, as they are so rare, that the demand that is there, far outweighs the supply. Thus, you are forced to use a POS not just for research, but also for Manufacturing, meaning again, more risks involved in running your operation, as well as extra costs in fuel.

4) Profit
Taking empire prices as a base, in null, the prices are generally higher. However, as manufacturing goods there is on general far more intensive and expensive as well as riskier than simply importing them, a Jump freighter pilot that buys manufactured goods in empire(or manufactres them over there), ships them out to null and sells them at a profit there, only has the cost of the fuel bill for trips, which is a lot less than the costs for running a whole manufacturing plant. Thus the margins he can set to earn a 'decent' profit, mean that an industrialist simply cannot compete.

It isn't so.

With your idea it would just mean wormhole dwellers would charge you 10 times as much