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High sec, get ready to be represented! James 315 announced his candidacy for CSM 8 in Brapelille!!!

Author
dark heartt
#201 - 2013-03-07 08:15:27 UTC
Aiden Lynch wrote:
dark heartt wrote:
Winchester Steele wrote:

I share his vision of hi-sec where awoxers, scammers, ninja looters and gankers are cherished and respected part of the community (even if its those guys you love to hate) and where no-one is ever "perfectly safe" from player interaction.


I'm going to stop you right there. His plan is to have people leave highsec, where the scammers, ninjalooters and gankers do most of their work and remove those targets.


I still don't understand the logic of this.

His plan is to make High Sec so full of gankers and so dangerous that miners will go....to low/null? Why would a player who didn't like being killed go to a PvPier area of the game? Wouldn't they just play some other game? (Or cease to exist entirely, because of how many of them are alts)?


Basically he wants to nerf the rewards for being in highsec to the point where people have no choice to go to low or null AKA the more risk the greater the reward. He wants to force player interaction (which you really can't force on anyone no matter how hard you try). It's like James can't see anything from anyone else's point of view.
Wescro
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#202 - 2013-03-07 08:28:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Wescro
What's funny is, a lot of people who balk at nerfing high sec happily sign on for buffing low/null. The end result is the same, high sec becomes unattractive relative to low/null, so why all the pussyfooting about nerfing high sec? It really shows the entitlement mentality of the high sec player. "What ever you do, don't take away our easy ISK! We need that or we will unsub!" Meanwhile, the easy access to oodles of ISK playing in super safe solo play-style is stifling player interaction and miner ganking is at record lows.

You want to earn bazillions. God bless. But your gonna have to take risks, and in high sec those risks just aren't there. Earn your moolah where I can shoot you damnit. I didn't sub to a cuthroat spaceship war game to spin my damn ship in the hangar.
Leonardo Esil
Miner Pinball INC
#203 - 2013-03-07 10:13:40 UTC
goddamnit, forum ate my post.
Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#204 - 2013-03-07 10:25:31 UTC
I would be happiest if there was no endless cycle of nerfs and buffs, and everyone could just learn to adapt to find the most violent solution to our problems instead of petitioning GMs or getting onto the CSM to manipulate CCP...

For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/

Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"

Aiden Lynch
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#205 - 2013-03-07 10:53:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Aiden Lynch
dark heartt wrote:
Aiden Lynch wrote:
dark heartt wrote:
Winchester Steele wrote:

I share his vision of hi-sec where awoxers, scammers, ninja looters and gankers are cherished and respected part of the community (even if its those guys you love to hate) and where no-one is ever "perfectly safe" from player interaction.


I'm going to stop you right there. His plan is to have people leave highsec, where the scammers, ninjalooters and gankers do most of their work and remove those targets.


I still don't understand the logic of this.

His plan is to make High Sec so full of gankers and so dangerous that miners will go....to low/null? Why would a player who didn't like being killed go to a PvPier area of the game? Wouldn't they just play some other game? (Or cease to exist entirely, because of how many of them are alts)?


Basically he wants to nerf the rewards for being in highsec to the point where people have no choice to go to low or null AKA the more risk the greater the reward. He wants to force player interaction (which you really can't force on anyone no matter how hard you try). It's like James can't see anything from anyone else's point of view.


Or WoW, or SC2, or Minesweeper


Wescro wrote:
What's funny is, a lot of people who balk at nerfing high sec happily sign on for buffing low/null. The end result is the same, high sec becomes unattractive relative to low/null, so why all the pussyfooting about nerfing high sec? It really shows the entitlement mentality of the high sec player. "What ever you do, don't take away our easy ISK! We need that or we will unsub!" Meanwhile, the easy access to oodles of ISK playing in super safe solo play-style is stifling player interaction and miner ganking is at record lows.

You want to earn bazillions. God bless. But your gonna have to take risks, and in high sec those risks just aren't there. Earn your moolah where I can shoot you damnit. I didn't sub to a cuthroat spaceship war game to spin my damn ship in the hangar.


The only thing stopping a New Order gank fleet from burning whole systems of miners is that you'd lose ships/ISK.

Anyway, the argument is that mull mining should be more lucrative, but if you're in a big alliance, null mining is pretty easy ISK too.
If you're good at this game, you're bad at this game.   If you're terrible at this game, you're great at this game. ISK is nothing. Pew pew everything.
Leonardo Esil
Miner Pinball INC
#206 - 2013-03-07 11:37:07 UTC
We mine "safely" in nullsec because thousands of rough men stand ready in the night to visit spaceship violence on those who would do us harm.

Seems entirely fair.
Jeremy Soikutsu
Kite Co. Space Trucking
#207 - 2013-03-07 15:03:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Jeremy Soikutsu
Aglais wrote:
Point 4/5: Yes. That's the entire god damn point. Highsec is broken. Look. If people were actually going elsewhere for minerals and selling them on the market to industrialists, then there wouldn't actually be a serious effect on the market from New Order activity. And it seems that since they started up, costs of things have increased. What does that imply? It implies that far too much of the economy is built around how cushy highsec mining is.

Yeah that was all the New Order. I'm sure it had almost nothing to do with gun mining to being destroyed, button orbiting, increases in BP requirements because of teiricide, and recently increases in population.

Wescro wrote:
Earn your moolah where I can shoot you damnit.

Because no one can shoot anyone in high. Noooooo one.

"Of course you would choose the fun, but you don't lead a relevant entity which has allies." - Colonel Xaven

Kainotomiu Ronuken
koahisquad
#208 - 2013-03-07 16:44:23 UTC
Aiden Lynch wrote:
if you're in a big alliance, null mining is pretty easy ISK too.

Two problems with this argument:

1. What safety there is in nullsec is provided by players, not CCP. That means that there is hundreds and hundreds of man hours going into that safety you have there.

2. It isn't. It isn't safe, you certainly can't AFK, and the ores aren't worth enough to bother going to null over highsec.
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#209 - 2013-03-07 21:22:34 UTC
What is your stance on AFK skill training?
Kainotomiu Ronuken
koahisquad
#210 - 2013-03-07 21:30:34 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
What is your stance on AFK skill training?

I know Wescro trains AFK all the time, so that pretty much speaks for itself.

As for James, he mentioned in one of his blog posts that he hadn't trained a skill for several years, with the exception of Currin Trading's ganking skills.

On another note; seriously Poetic, some good posting from you just now. All that copy/paste.
Kainotomiu Ronuken
koahisquad
#211 - 2013-03-07 21:33:24 UTC
I hope the ISDs ban you for spam.
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#212 - 2013-03-07 21:38:51 UTC
Kainotomiu Ronuken wrote:
I hope the ISDs ban you for spam.
It is a valid question for all the candidates. :)
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#213 - 2013-03-07 21:53:31 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Kainotomiu Ronuken wrote:
I hope the ISDs ban you for spam.
It is a valid question for all the candidates. :)


Then I trust you won't compain if the candidates send you valid informational evemails...? Twisted

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Kainotomiu Ronuken
koahisquad
#214 - 2013-03-07 21:58:29 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Kainotomiu Ronuken wrote:
I hope the ISDs ban you for spam.
It is a valid question for all the candidates. :)


Then I trust you won't compain if the candidates send you valid informational evemails...? Twisted

I have to assume not, since he's making a program to aid you in that task. http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.com/2013/03/csm-campaign-season-mass-evemailing.html
Jeremy Soikutsu
Kite Co. Space Trucking
#215 - 2013-03-08 01:43:40 UTC
Kainotomiu Ronuken wrote:
It isn't safe[in null], you certainly can't AFK.

As someone who's actually mined in null, yeah you can. At the very most you need one person paying half attention so they can fleet warp for BS rats. Your other points are correct, but I'm not following this thread super well, so I'm not sure of their context, not that I much care.

"Of course you would choose the fun, but you don't lead a relevant entity which has allies." - Colonel Xaven

Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#216 - 2013-03-11 11:14:07 UTC
from http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.ca/2013/03/is-james-315-crazy-person.html

No.

That's the long and short of it. You can stop reading now, if you want.

I get the impression that a lot of people feel that all James will do, if he makes it onto the council, will be to rant and froth to CCP concerning highsec.

It's ridiculous to think that he's going to be screaming at CCP for twelve months. More ridiculous to think these things if you've read or listened to a thing he's said in the past month and a half.

A lot of people read all the background fluff on minerbumping.com, and assume that's the entirety of James 315's platform. Xander was certainly fooled by it in his interview with James. Just because a guy chooses to be a pain in the ass to miners does not mean he's incapable of critical thinking beyond the scope of his chosen role playing. Hell, The Mittani made some good coin scamming super-capitals from people. He instigated perpetual Hulkageddon and Burn Jita. He supported Ministry of Love's ice miner and freighter ganking operations. Was he a terrible CSM? Was he incapable of thinking beyond the things that amused him in-game?

The thing people can't get past where it concerns James is the rhetoric. Things like "burn all of highsec." Those are simply words to stir up the debate. They're attention grabbers. They give James a spotlight and soapbox, both essential to any successful campaign. If you can get beyond the rhetoric you'll find an intelligent individual, running a coherent and thoughtful campaign.

Get past the rhetoric and James' campaign boils down to these simple principles:

  1. It should be economically desirable for nullsec people to earn their money in nullsec -- more reward for the risk.
  2. It should be economically desirable for lowsec people to earn their money in lowsec -- more reward for the risk.
  3. The risk/reward ratios for wormhole space seem to be working fine.
  4. Reduce the rewards in highsec, or increase the risk. Either way, keeping the status quo simply increases the highsec population, which fundamentally imbalances the game.

That's a pretty simple and straightforward treatise. The reward should match the risk. It's hard to argue that the risk/reward ratios in EVE are not broken, when most null players elect to earn their money in highsec on their alts. This is not how it always was in EVE. Nullsec people used to play and earn in nullsec; James would like to see the ability to earn where one chooses to play, he'd like to see that return to the game.

This sort of old-style game play already exists with the wormhole people. Wormhole people mostly stay and earn in wormholes. They don't migrate their alts to the low-risk, high-reward environs of highsec. As with wormhole play it should be with nullsec and lowsec play.

James is not only about re-balancing highsec, that's an entire misreading of his campaign. He's about restructuring null and lowsec at its core, to create more playable and risky, yet more rewarding, environments. If you live and fight in null/lowsec, than you should be earning there as well. Highsec shouldn't be a siren song away from those other areas that you call your playground.

Consider this recent quote by James:
Quote:
You can't please both the EVE player who just wants to be left alone in the ice field, and also please the EVE player who wants to suicide gank or wardec the industrialists. The latter says "let me shoot spaceships", and the former says "don't let them kill me". Both sides say they're for the sandbox, but enabling either side always comes at a cost.

This speaks strongly to the sort of representative James will be. Certainly not one gnashing his teeth and snarling at CCP devs from across a table or a Skype connection. This demonstrates an individual well aware of the balancing act that EVE must perform. He's well-aware that many different play styles must be accommodated. He's understands give and take. You can't go entirely in one direction without harming the game overall.

Sure, James has put forth some radical ideas (who hasn't?), but I'm quite sure James knows which of his ideas he can build traction with and which aren't going to fly with the producers in the room. But start from an extreme position and work your way to the middle, rather than trying to guess where the middle is and then working your way even further from your core ideals.

The most important element that James brings to the CSM is as a watchdog. That's something we've been sorely missing with the last CSM, who seemed more interested in defending and protecting the devs (and CCP) from criticism. We need a CSM representative who will examine every piece of development and ask the tough questions: "How will this affect the core principles that EVE Online was built upon?"

Consider adding James to your ballot. Rank him high. If you value a representative more interested in the game than making pleasantries, then James is your man. If you're more interested in someone willing to criticize bad development decisions, rather than someone who will defend those decisions, then James is your man.

(Hell, the future CSM8 chair supports James. Mynnna has given 4.44B ISK to the cause. If you're Goonswarm, rank your ballot Mynnna followed by James 315; let all those over-votes flow to someone even your leaders support and trust.)
High Sec Dan
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#217 - 2013-03-11 12:18:13 UTC  |  Edited by: High Sec Dan
It's quite obvious that people assume James 315's in game activities are his CSM platforrm. You have to remember that James 315 is an old-timer from the glory days of Nullsec PvP, and his platform is in part inspired by a desire to bring that back.

Poetic Stanziel wrote:
(Hell, the future CSM8 chair supports James. Mynnna has given 4.44B ISK to the cause. If you're Goonswarm, rank your ballot Mynnna followed by James 315; let all those over-votes flow to someone even your leaders support and trust.)


Mynnna might have been amused by James' in game activities, as most wealthy philanthropists are, but he seems entirely unimpressed with James' CSM bid.

Twitters interface is god awful, or I would link the specific tweets, but they are out there for those who want them. The gist of Mynnna's response to James 315 is this:


  1. James 315 is not at this point on the official Goonswarm ballot.
  2. Mynnna has personal concerns about James 315's platform.
  3. James 315 has not put forward details, and highlighted problems that people already agree exist.
  4. Nerfing high sec to the ground is not advisable.
  5. It's hard to say what it is that James 315 wants.


The last one is surprising given James has written ad nauseum about his ideas.

At the same time, Mynnna has been posturing positively towards the opposing candidate, Trebor. A great example of this is the recent Treborgate article on his blog.

It's hard to say whether Mynnna genuinely is philosophically aligned with the safer high-sec crowd, or if this is a political ploy.
Kainotomiu Ronuken
koahisquad
#218 - 2013-03-11 12:21:53 UTC
High Sec Dan wrote:
It's hard to say whether Mynna genuinely is philosophically aligned with the safer high-sec crowd, or if this is a political ploy.

Well, it isn't a political anything, because the only politics that Mynnna actually needs to engage in is on goonfleet.com, and I believe that he's already gained the position of official Goonswarm candidate.
Vin King
State War Academy
Caldari State
#219 - 2013-03-11 16:59:06 UTC
It's not hard to peer past the layer of overdramatic satire when it comes to Our Saviour, and see what his intent is. The Agents of the Order were a complete boon to me as a new player. As a new industrialist. Everyone wants to paint us as monsters, boogeymen, and alts, but the reality of it all is that we're good people who are having fun playing together, like most corps. Our objectives are simple. Enforce the Code. Collect a pittance of a fee. Provide a welcoming environment for miners. Eradicate the spirit of the Bot. Praise the Saviour of HighSec. These are simple things, things that benefit everyone. I'm proud to be part of the New Order and proud to support 315 4 CSM8.

Proud member of the New Order of HighSec

Primary Me
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#220 - 2013-03-12 20:46:53 UTC
More wise words:

http://www.minerbumping.com/2013/03/a-few-controversial-opinions.html

Are any other CSM candidates this open about what they stand for? Can any of them show even a fraction of this level of honesty?