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Dueling Made Fair

Author
Bud Austrene
Secure Haven
#1 - 2013-03-06 22:14:18 UTC
I feel that if dueling was made fair (no cheating) that everyone would benefit.
Maybe with a scoreboard to keep track of winners.
The losers can keep track of themselves.

I do not duel because i am afraid that he has an unfair advantage.
Otherwise, why would he be asking me to duel.

I think that a lot of people would enjoy guaranteed fair fights.
Although i suspect, that once the novelty wears off the player would be more likely to take up PVP instead of mining.
This would promote higher retention of new players in the game.

I feel that maybe having a way to scan your opponent to how he has equipped his ship and knowing that what you see is all that he can bring into the fight. No outside help allowed. Maybe CCP could provide a tool that would make that easy.

I think a lot more would be doing PVP if there was a better entry way in.
Trust me, getting blown up and losing isk when you are out manned and out gunned is not anyone's idea of fun and does not teach the fun side of PVP . But to make me think that at least I had a chance would be a lot of fun and likely i would take the risk.


Yes I am an alt. I see no reason to make it easy for bullies and greifers

Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-03-06 22:25:12 UTC
So there is this really cool module called a ship scanner, and the best part about it, it is a non-aggressive module so you won't get concoreded.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Mikaila Penshar
SISTAHs of EVE
#3 - 2013-03-06 22:36:59 UTC
What you want is going to be arriving some day soon to a station (most likely a trade hub) near you.

It is called a video game - what you will need to do is, while using your in-station avatar, walk out of your captain's quarters and down the hall to your local 'The Duelist'.. drop an ISK in the frigate simulator machine and climb in to pilot an evenly matched fairfight (tm).

Granted it wont do anything for your bragging rights and might adversely affect your self esteem, but you wont wind up with a fit of ragequit and go to bed crying in your pillow.

Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#4 - 2013-03-07 02:19:54 UTC
Bud Austrene wrote:

I feel that maybe having a way to scan your opponent to how he has equipped his ship and knowing that what you see is all that he can bring into the fight. No outside help allowed. Maybe CCP could provide a tool that would make that easy.

I think a lot more would be doing PVP if there was a better entry way in.
Trust me, getting blown up and losing isk when you are out manned and out gunned is not anyone's idea of fun and does not teach the fun side of PVP . But to make me think that at least I had a chance would be a lot of fun and likely i would take the risk.


Duelling system is the worse idea they had in the last 3-4 years. And now - as many predicted - demands to turn it in a safe arena/battleground system increase. The way to the total depravation is open.

Problem with duels is they are artificials and do not give anything neither close to any real EVE pvp situation. So are not relevant in teaching or getting players into PvP.

Actually getting blown up is just the better "entry way in"; you don't "lose" isk, you just spend them to learn. And if there's something easy to make in EVE are just ISK.


sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2013-03-07 02:22:09 UTC
Sura Sadiva wrote:
Bud Austrene wrote:

I feel that maybe having a way to scan your opponent to how he has equipped his ship and knowing that what you see is all that he can bring into the fight. No outside help allowed. Maybe CCP could provide a tool that would make that easy.

I think a lot more would be doing PVP if there was a better entry way in.
Trust me, getting blown up and losing isk when you are out manned and out gunned is not anyone's idea of fun and does not teach the fun side of PVP . But to make me think that at least I had a chance would be a lot of fun and likely i would take the risk.


Duelling system is the worse idea they had in the last 3-4 years. And now - as many predicted - demands to turn it in a safe arena/battleground system increase. The way to the total depravation is open.

Problem with duels is they are artificials and do not give anything neither close to any real EVE pvp situation. So are not relevant in teaching or getting players into PvP.

Actually getting blown up is just the better "entry way in"; you don't "lose" isk, you just spend them to learn. And if there's something easy to make in EVE are just ISK.




And what do you learn by getting blown up repeatedly? That there's neut rr in empires?Lol
Mag's
Azn Empire
#6 - 2013-03-07 02:25:33 UTC
Bud Austrene wrote:
I feel that if dueling was made fair (no cheating) that everyone would benefit.
Maybe with a scoreboard to keep track of winners.
The losers can keep track of themselves.

I do not duel because i am afraid that he has an unfair advantage.
Otherwise, why would he be asking me to duel.

I think that a lot of people would enjoy guaranteed fair fights.
Although i suspect, that once the novelty wears off the player would be more likely to take up PVP instead of mining.
This would promote higher retention of new players in the game.

I feel that maybe having a way to scan your opponent to how he has equipped his ship and knowing that what you see is all that he can bring into the fight. No outside help allowed. Maybe CCP could provide a tool that would make that easy.

I think a lot more would be doing PVP if there was a better entry way in.
Trust me, getting blown up and losing isk when you are out manned and out gunned is not anyone's idea of fun and does not teach the fun side of PVP . But to make me think that at least I had a chance would be a lot of fun and likely i would take the risk.


Not sure if serious. What?

As has already been pointed out, you can scan your opponent and know what he has fitted. But to expect fair fights, is quite frankly ridiculous.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#7 - 2013-03-07 06:12:50 UTC
Bud Austrene wrote:

I do not duel because i am afraid

i am afraid

i am afraid

afraid

beep beep



Winning your fears will result in better quality of life.

.

Bud Austrene
Secure Haven
#8 - 2013-03-07 18:53:02 UTC
Roime wrote:
Bud Austrene wrote:

I do not duel because i am afraid

i am afraid

i am afraid

afraid

beep beep



Winning your fears will result in better quality of life.


Do you really think that I am suppose to enjoy losing isk.

And you are right, I am afraid, I am afraid of being STUPID.
I have not been raised to believe that being DUMB is good.

And as for demanding any changes, I am only suggesting that this would make EVE better on several levels.

Yes I am an alt. I see no reason to make it easy for bullies and greifers

Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#9 - 2013-03-07 19:27:45 UTC
Bud Austrene wrote:
Roime wrote:
Bud Austrene wrote:

I do not duel because i am afraid

i am afraid

i am afraid

afraid

beep beep



Winning your fears will result in better quality of life.


Do you really think that I am suppose to enjoy losing isk.

And you are right, I am afraid, I am afraid of being STUPID.
I have not been raised to believe that being DUMB is good.

And as for demanding any changes, I am only suggesting that this would make EVE better on several levels.


All losses should be affordable if you are flying something that you can't afford to lose dock up immediately and fly something else. Never take it out of the hanger again, unless of course you can afford to replace it. Eve is different to other mmo's in that loss hurts, but that's ok. If it isnt painful it's not loss.

All forms of combat teach you something so give it a try and dive in.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...

Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2013-03-07 19:31:53 UTC
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
Bud Austrene wrote:
Roime wrote:
Bud Austrene wrote:

I do not duel because i am afraid

i am afraid

i am afraid

afraid

beep beep



Winning your fears will result in better quality of life.


Do you really think that I am suppose to enjoy losing isk.

And you are right, I am afraid, I am afraid of being STUPID.
I have not been raised to believe that being DUMB is good.

And as for demanding any changes, I am only suggesting that this would make EVE better on several levels.


All losses should be affordable if you are flying something that you can't afford to lose dock up immediately and fly something else. Never take it out of the hanger again, unless of course you can afford to replace it. Eve is different to other mmo's in that loss hurts, but that's ok. If it isnt painful it's not loss.

All forms of combat teach you something so give it a try and dive in.

This ^^^

If you fly T1 Frigates with T2 fittings and or T1 Destroyers with T2 fittings you should be able to afford to get blown up several times a day.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Infinite Pew
#11 - 2013-03-07 19:51:36 UTC
Bud Austrene wrote:
Roime wrote:
Winning your fears will result in better quality of life.

Do you really think that I am suppose to enjoy losing isk.

Yes. That's where the "fun" comes from... the risk of losing all your hard earned ISK because you didn't stack the odds in your favor.

Bud Austrene wrote:
And you are right, I am afraid, I am afraid of being STUPID.
I have not been raised to believe that being DUMB is good.

Good. So do something to put the odds more in your favor.

Bud Austrene wrote:
And as for demanding any changes, I am only suggesting that this would make EVE better on several levels.

How so? EVE has never centered on "fairness" in any arbitrary, mechanical way. It just gives everyone the same tools and abilities and says, "you can all use and do the same things... that's fair."

Also... "instancing" is very bad and anathema to EVE. Everyone should have the chance to affect everyone else for better or worse.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2013-03-07 19:59:09 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:

It just gives everyone the same tools and abilities and says, "you can all use and do the same things... that's fair."

Imagine you are in the Roman Coliseum and you see the table of weapons before you, there is a sword, shield, mace, axe, spear, bow, and a gun. If you chose spears because you like them best, that is your choice but you opponent might chose the gun because it is the most effective weapon. You both had the same options but made different choices.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Akrasjel Lanate
Lanate Industries
#13 - 2013-03-07 20:35:05 UTC
1. No
2. We have killboard, make one dedicated for dueling, thats possible ?

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude

Akara Ito
Phalanx Solutions
#14 - 2013-03-07 20:37:50 UTC
Bud Austrene wrote:
[quote=Roime]
Do you really think that I am suppose to enjoy losing isk.

And you are right, I am afraid, I am afraid of being STUPID.
I have not been raised to believe that being DUMB is good.

And as for demanding any changes, I am only suggesting that this would make EVE better on several levels.


I think you just dont get Eve.

You are supposed to enjoy the duel, not just the result.
You are supposed to learn from your losses, even if you just learn to use the ship scanner or not to trust a particular person again.

People like you are the reason a lot of Eve players categorically hate(d) the idea of duels, not for what they are, but for what they will turn into.
Bud Austrene
Secure Haven
#15 - 2013-03-07 20:57:07 UTC
You guys have got it all wrong. My mains have been in the game for about 1 1/2 years each. I am not isk poor and I happen to like PVP.
You seem to think that i am adverse to risk. That is not true. But i am adverse to entering a fight that i don't feel that i can win.

It seems that a lot of you are attacking me and making suggestions on how i can play the game your way.
I know how to play the game your way. I do not need any suggestions.

What I want is for more people to try EVE and find a reason to stay.
The suggestions that I am receiving are not even close to being useful.

Everyone seems to jump to the conclusion that I want to have safe dueling for my own purposes.

Get real, my mains roam and hunt in cloaky lokis. None of my fights are what anyone would call fair.
I want more victims. I want more players in the game.
And I think that safe dueling would be a way to get more players to stay in the game and want to do low sec and null PVP.

Yes I am an alt. I see no reason to make it easy for bullies and greifers

Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2013-03-07 20:59:46 UTC
Bud Austrene wrote:
What I want is for more people to try EVE and find a reason to stay.

Yore suggestions have no relation to this.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Infinite Pew
#17 - 2013-03-07 21:18:16 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Bud Austrene wrote:
You seem to think that i am adverse to risk. That is not true. But i am adverse to entering a fight that i don't feel that i can win.

Risk involves the possibility of losing. If you don't like that idea, then you are "risk adverse." Sorry.

Bud Austrene wrote:
It seems that a lot of you are attacking me and making suggestions on how i can play the game your way.
I know how to play the game your way. I do not need any suggestions.

Nnnnnooooooooo... we are attacking your idea of "fairness." In our eyes, "fair" is where everyone has the same access to the same tools and tactics that everyone else does. And we like it this way because it balances itself out over time... as opposed to introducing arbitrary mechanics that enforce what you can and cannot do with this or that situation... which have to be tinkered and modified each time someone finds a way around them.

Bud Austrene wrote:
Everyone seems to jump to the conclusion that I want to have safe dueling for my own purposes.

Uh huh. What did you say in the OP again?
Bud Austrene wrote:
I feel that if dueling was made fair (no cheating) that everyone would benefit.
...
I do not duel because i am afraid that he has an unfair advantage.
...
I think that a lot of people would enjoy guaranteed fair fights.



Bud Austrene wrote:
And I think that safe dueling would be a way to get more players to stay in the game and want to do low sec and null PVP.

It won't.

Simply put... having an "instanced" area that "enforces fairness" will cripple open world PvP.

After all... why go out on a "wild PvP roam" where anything could happen when you can get your PvP rocks off in an arena where you don't have to look over your shoulder? Which is easier to get into? Which can you get fights out of faster?

It's the sheer convenience of an arena that would kill open world PvP... which depends heavily on there not being options such as this.
Bud Austrene
Secure Haven
#18 - 2013-03-07 21:37:31 UTC
As previously stated, i do not duel because i feel that he may have an unfair advantage.

If i was sure it would be fair, i might duel.

To be honest, at this point in time I want to have the unfair advantage.

I see no reason to just throwaway isk for a "might get lucky" chance of winning.
I tried that and never won and it was not fun.

So now i make pretty sure that i am the one with the advantage.
But i have the skill points , isk and experience to recognize when that is.

A lot of new players do not have that.
I feel that after a few tries at "hoping to get lucky" and not succeeding that they feel the bar is to high and give up.

Yes I am an alt. I see no reason to make it easy for bullies and greifers

Bud Austrene
Secure Haven
#19 - 2013-03-07 21:43:48 UTC
Does anyone have a better suggestion for how to increase new player retention?

If you try to force players to do anything, they will leave the game.

Yes I am an alt. I see no reason to make it easy for bullies and greifers

Mag's
Azn Empire
#20 - 2013-03-07 21:49:46 UTC
Who forces anyone to duel? What the hell is an unfair advantage?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

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