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Skill Discussions

 
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Command ships, take 2.
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GreenSeed
#1 - 2013-03-07 20:48:17 UTC
Ok, a few months back i asked if starting training on command ships was a bad idea or not, given the upcoming rebalance.

now that we already know what will the new prereqs be, if i start and finish training for the current Command ships (it will take me 10 days), after the changes, will the rule of "if you could fly it before you will be flying it after" kick in and grant the new skills? any ccp post or blog confirming they will continue this policy?

just asking.


and i'm not interested in "free SPs" or any other shenanigans both honeycombing + the bc skills + dessies will already make my clone jump a category... so no, i'm not at all happy about the changes.
Haulie Berry
#2 - 2013-03-07 20:53:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Haulie Berry
This question has been answered a ridiculous number of times, including in a sticky post at the top of this board.

If you can fly it before, you will be able to fly it after.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#3 - 2013-03-07 21:06:40 UTC
Haulie Berry wrote:
This question has been answered a ridiculous number of times.

If you can fly it before, you will be able to fly it after.


To be fair, this is a bit more convoluted.

It's entirely possible to be unable to fly CSs now but to still have the skill trained because the hulls require things that the skill doesn't (namely HAC 4 for field CSs and Logi 4 for fleet CSs). So this doesn't fall under the simple mantra explanation.

However, it currently looks like working up to the CS skill now (which only required Leadership 5 and Warfare Link Specialist 4) will allow you to retain and keep training the CS skill after the patch (as per Ytterbium here). Since the hulls are also losing their additional prerequisites, that means it's entirely possible to train into CSs now and dodge both the current HAC/Logi requirement and the new requirements of Armored/Information/Siege/Skirmish Warfare 5.
Kimimaro Yoga
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#4 - 2013-03-10 07:29:21 UTC
GreenSeed wrote:
after the changes, will the rule of "if you could fly it before you will be flying it after" kick in and grant the new skills?


This is the core of the confusion a lot of people seem to still have. The only "new skills" that anyone will receive free SP into are the new racial BC and destroyer skills, that are replacing existing skills. All the other changes are just alterations to the prerequisite tree of an existing skill. The way skills work in Eve, once you can inject a skill, you can use it. If the prerequisites for that skill are changed later, you keep your points in it, but you do not receive any of the new prerequisites for free.

So in the case of command ships, if you want to fly one for DPS without bothering with the boosting skills, train the prereqs now and inject it before the expansion. Then you will be able to fly them after the expansion without messing with the current additional prereqs. If you're training the boosting skills anyways, it doesn't really matter. Just don't expect to get SP in the new booster skill prereqs.

Now recruiting: http://dogfacedesign.com/index.php/Recruiting-Posters/recruiting-poster-patr3
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog
B.L.U.E L.A.S.E.R.
#5 - 2013-03-11 15:44:51 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Haulie Berry wrote:
This question has been answered a ridiculous number of times.

If you can fly it before, you will be able to fly it after.


To be fair, this is a bit more convoluted.

It's entirely possible to be unable to fly CSs now but to still have the skill trained because the hulls require things that the skill doesn't (namely HAC 4 for field CSs and Logi 4 for fleet CSs). So this doesn't fall under the simple mantra explanation.

However, it currently looks like working up to the CS skill now (which only required Leadership 5 and Warfare Link Specialist 4) will allow you to retain and keep training the CS skill after the patch (as per Ytterbium here). Since the hulls are also losing their additional prerequisites, that means it's entirely possible to train into CSs now and dodge both the current HAC/Logi requirement and the new requirements of Armored/Information/Siege/Skirmish Warfare 5.


This, this, a thousand times this.

Remember there are two types of prerequisites: the class-of-ship ship skill itself (Command Ships) and the specific hull skill requirements (Logi IV, or HAC IV). The upcoming changes are going to affect both, and if you want to fly Command Ships in the future, go ahead and and at least inject the Command Ship skill.

I am not an alt of Chribba.
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#6 - 2013-04-02 09:22:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Morrigan LeSante
To be fair, this one confused me too.

Lets say I can fly a nighthawk today, but do not have the "future" *.warefare requirements. "Tomorrow" I'll still be able to fly the NH, but will I be able to fly all the racial equivalents too?

i.e. do I get "bonus" hulls I couldnt previously fly?
Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2013-04-02 09:31:51 UTC
After the change, the various command ships will require {racial} Battlecruiser V and Command Ships I. If you have those skills at that level, you will be able to fly the relevant ship.

So, for example, if after the skill change you have Amarr Battlecruiser V and Command Ships I, you will be able to fly a Damnation.
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#8 - 2013-04-02 09:34:33 UTC
Cool. Free stuff Big smile
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#9 - 2013-04-02 15:14:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
A very nice summary of the changes: EVE University - Odyssey Skill Changes and You

http://forum.eveuniversity.org/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=65344

EDIT: Looks like the EVE forums don't like the URL, so you have to copy and paste it into your browser.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#10 - 2013-04-02 19:40:42 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
A very nice summary of the changes: EVE University - Odyssey Skill Changes and You

http://forum.eveuniversity.org/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=65344

EDIT: Looks like the EVE forums don't like the URL, so you have to copy and paste it into your browser.


I like it. About the only thing it doesn't cover are the impending freighter changes, but those are more manageable in general.
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#11 - 2013-04-03 07:08:00 UTC
^ And the odd move to the HAC queue too. I'd get that injected pronto (if you dont already).

Energy grid upgrades V for a HAC instead of AS IV....ewwwww
Gal'o Sengen
Doomheim
#12 - 2013-04-05 17:43:55 UTC
You do not need tertiary skill requirements if you already have Primary requirements. Tertiary requirements are only required to Inject the Primary requirement.

If you Inject the CS skill before the requirement change, it doesn't matter if you have the new tertiary requirements. Hell, you could even get yourself podded and lose the old requirements and it wouldn't matter, so long as you have Command Ships injected.
Inkarr Hashur
Skyline Federation
#13 - 2013-04-05 18:04:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Inkarr Hashur
Gal'o Sengen wrote:
You do not need tertiary skill requirements if you already have Primary requirements. Tertiary requirements are only required to Inject the Primary requirement.

If you Inject the CS skill before the requirement change, it doesn't matter if you have the new tertiary requirements. Hell, you could even get yourself podded and lose the old requirements and it wouldn't matter, so long as you have Command Ships injected.

It's called a Prerequisite skill. Not a tertiary requirement. Secondary and tertiary skills are attached to ship hulls, and are required in order to even undock them.
Bloody Wench
#14 - 2013-04-06 00:07:39 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Haulie Berry wrote:
This question has been answered a ridiculous number of times.

If you can fly it before, you will be able to fly it after.


To be fair, this is a bit more convoluted.

It's entirely possible to be unable to fly CSs now but to still have the skill trained because the hulls require things that the skill doesn't (namely HAC 4 for field CSs and Logi 4 for fleet CSs). So this doesn't fall under the simple mantra explanation.

However, it currently looks like working up to the CS skill now (which only required Leadership 5 and Warfare Link Specialist 4) will allow you to retain and keep training the CS skill after the patch (as per Ytterbium here). Since the hulls are also losing their additional prerequisites, that means it's entirely possible to train into CSs now and dodge both the current HAC/Logi requirement and the new requirements of Armored/Information/Siege/Skirmish Warfare 5.



Bingo.

[u]**Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote: **[/u]  CCP should not only make local delayed in highsec, but they should also require one be undocked to use it. Then, even the local spammers have some skin in the game. Support a High Resolution Texture Pack
SilentStryder
#15 - 2013-04-07 03:02:27 UTC
Bloody Wench wrote:
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Haulie Berry wrote:
This question has been answered a ridiculous number of times.

If you can fly it before, you will be able to fly it after.


To be fair, this is a bit more convoluted.

It's entirely possible to be unable to fly CSs now but to still have the skill trained because the hulls require things that the skill doesn't (namely HAC 4 for field CSs and Logi 4 for fleet CSs). So this doesn't fall under the simple mantra explanation.

However, it currently looks like working up to the CS skill now (which only required Leadership 5 and Warfare Link Specialist 4) will allow you to retain and keep training the CS skill after the patch (as per Ytterbium here). Since the hulls are also losing their additional prerequisites, that means it's entirely possible to train into CSs now and dodge both the current HAC/Logi requirement and the new requirements of Armored/Information/Siege/Skirmish Warfare 5.



Bingo.


This ^^ this is my nefarious plan as well...