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'other' minmatar mission ship?
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Maureen Biologist
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2011-10-28 12:37:54 UTC
right, i've had enough of my mission maelstrom and i want to try something different.

I only have t2 autocannons and minmatar ship skills, I want something to fly level 4 missions in that doesnt need a cap booster, doesnt need another factions ship skills (im looking at you machariel) and doesnt require full use of split projectiles/missiles to get a respectable dps.

any ideas? i've been looking at tempest (or tempest fleet) but i cant seem to find anything im happy with. any suggestions>?
Songbird
#2 - 2011-10-28 13:08:28 UTC
vargur- as an added bonus you get extra falloff so 40 km is no longer the limit.

OTOH maelstrom is perfectly good incursion ship - make it shiny and you won't even have to use cap booster since reps come from outside
Ethan Blue
MycoPhile Network
#3 - 2011-10-28 13:08:43 UTC
Maureen Biologist wrote:
right, i've had enough of my mission maelstrom and i want to try something different.

I only have t2 autocannons and minmatar ship skills, I want something to fly level 4 missions in that doesnt need a cap booster, doesnt need another factions ship skills (im looking at you machariel) and doesnt require full use of split projectiles/missiles to get a respectable dps.

any ideas? i've been looking at tempest (or tempest fleet) but i cant seem to find anything im happy with. any suggestions>?


First of all, I understand your question. The answer is No.

As far as AC ships, Maelstrom > Fleet Issue Tempest. The next upgrade on your path is the Machariel. I know that is not what you want to hear, but Gallente BS 4 won't take you more than 2 weeks and TOTALLY worth it. Even if you take it all the way to Vargur, Machariel is still arguably better.
Maureen Biologist
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2011-10-28 14:18:09 UTC
bah, i dont really want to go the mach route. i cant seem to make a fit that i'm happy with that doesnt involve buying at least LG crystals. (this is just a mission running alt).

I'm just the min bs 5 from vargur, so thats another month away.

baaah.
Alara IonStorm
#5 - 2011-10-28 14:35:08 UTC
A long shot but perhaps a Sleipnir.

[Sleipnir, Mission]
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Tracking Enhancer II
Damage Control II

Gistum B-Type Medium Shield Booster
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Corelum C-Type 10MN Afterburner

720mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP M
Small Tractor Beam I

Medium Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defence Operational Solidifier I


Hobgoblin II x5
Hobgoblin II x3
1-Up Mushroom
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2011-10-28 14:46:16 UTC
Blitzing in Sleips is really fun and good LP
5 Senses In A Person... 4 Seasons In A Year... 3 Colors In A Stoplight... 2 Poles On The Earth... ONLY 1-UP MUSHROOM!!!  If You Like My Sig, Like Me!   Remember EVE is EVErything!
Maureen Biologist
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2011-10-28 14:49:06 UTC
I'm 62 days away from sliep (8 days left on min cruiser 5)... but out of interest, why arties and not acs on it?
Songbird
#8 - 2011-10-28 14:49:31 UTC
sleipnir is the worse ship for missions when you compare it to maelstrom.
Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
#9 - 2011-10-28 14:50:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Cambarus
Why are you so against the mach? Gal BS 4 doesn't take long and the difference in performance is HUGE. The vargur is also a good choice, but the mach is better at damn near everything.

Also, why are you surprised that people are telling you to go mach/varg? You're using a mael, want ACs, and want to upgrade. The mach and the varg are literally the only 2 ships in the game that put out more pain with ACs than a mael (excluding caps obviously)


It's also worth noting that you don't permanently run the booster on a mach. Hell, with good skills you won't even NEED a booster for most missions, your speed and potential range are your tank.

EDIT: don't get a sleip. It is literally worse in every way possible to a mael for lvl 4s, with the possible exception of that buzzkill mission.
Songbird
#10 - 2011-10-28 15:09:22 UTC
the new 'nado BC will have same stats as varg but no drones. Wait a month and get that :)
Goose99
#11 - 2011-10-28 15:11:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Goose99
Cambarus wrote:
Why are you so against the mach? Gal BS 4 doesn't take long and the difference in performance is HUGE. The vargur is also a good choice, but the mach is better at damn near everything.

Also, why are you surprised that people are telling you to go mach/varg? You're using a mael, want ACs, and want to upgrade. The mach and the varg are literally the only 2 ships in the game that put out more pain with ACs than a mael (excluding caps obviously)


It's also worth noting that you don't permanently run the booster on a mach. Hell, with good skills you won't even NEED a booster for most missions, your speed and potential range are your tank.

EDIT: don't get a sleip. It is literally worse in every way possible to a mael for lvl 4s, with the possible exception of that buzzkill mission.


^This

Sleipnir is a downgrade from Mael. The choice is between Mach and Vargur. Vargur takes longer to train due to BS lvl5 + awu lvl5.

Tornado's falloff bonus looks promising. But its tank is filmsy by design. 5 mids and 4 lows (compared to 5 mids, 7 lows of mach, etc) also means fewer slots for gyros + te/tc while maintaining tank, resulting in lower dps and range when fitted. In any case, leaked stats aren't final. We'll have to see when it comes out.
Alara IonStorm
#12 - 2011-10-28 15:27:56 UTC
Maureen Biologist wrote:
I'm 62 days away from sliep (8 days left on min cruiser 5)... but out of interest, why arties and not acs on it?

3 Times the Range, less ammo used less of your dmg is in falloff.

Both are good. I use a 1400mm Maelstrom as my primary mission boat with a set of Auto Cannons and an AB for close Range Missions. I switch between the 2 for say 1400mm if the mission would go quicker one shoting Cruisers 80KM out, or if the enemy starts at 50km ant they are all rushing to get to 20km.

I am going for the Sleipnir because I plain can not stand Battleships and all my skill is in Sub BS.
Songbird
#13 - 2011-10-28 15:37:58 UTC
The sub bs boat for missions is the tengu with 750 dps.

Until the new tier 3s come out you won't be able to get much more than 400-500 DPS out of a sub BS.

Varg and mach will give you 1000 dps, we recommend them because they're 2 times better than the rest that's out there.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#14 - 2011-10-28 16:18:49 UTC
Maureen Biologist wrote:
bah, i dont really want to go the mach route. i cant seem to make a fit that i'm happy with that doesnt involve buying at least LG crystals. (this is just a mission running alt).

I'm just the min bs 5 from vargur, so thats another month away.

baaah.


Keep looking then. I don't think anyone really suggests crystals on a mission Mach. The tank numbers might strike you as low, but this is one ship where you really don't need to tank that hard. I get by more than adequately with an EFT 476 omnitank (69 sustained; cap lasts 1 minute 46 seconds). And it just doesn't have issues, even when I occasionally do something really, really dumb.
Goose99
#15 - 2011-10-28 16:27:56 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Maureen Biologist wrote:
bah, i dont really want to go the mach route. i cant seem to make a fit that i'm happy with that doesnt involve buying at least LG crystals. (this is just a mission running alt).

I'm just the min bs 5 from vargur, so thats another month away.

baaah.


Keep looking then. I don't think anyone really suggests crystals on a mission Mach. The tank numbers might strike you as low, but this is one ship where you really don't need to tank that hard. I get by more than adequately with an EFT 476 omnitank (69 sustained; cap lasts 1 minute 46 seconds). And it just doesn't have issues, even when I occasionally do something really, really dumb.


500m/s speed with ab, plus sig 33% smaller than Vargur, Mach can speed tank better than any other BS except Panther. It also has one more slot (5 mid + 7 low = 12) compared to Vargur (6 mid + 5 low = 11). Having one more slot, while taking less dmg, much higher speed, plus slightly more dps and range, Mach's tank works just fine in practice.
Maureen Biologist
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2011-10-28 16:51:32 UTC
okok, the reason i dont like the idea of mach is that i can only seem to get about 300 all lvl 5 (which this cahracter is not in the first place) burst tank out of it using a gist A type large booster (got one lying around), a cnavy shield boost amp, and an em hard+invul. not much more with, for instance, a pith a-type hardener.

Im familiar with low tank values, i have much experience on other characters using a tengu for lvl 4's that perma runs about 250dps tank and never has issues in lvl 4's so maybe this is me just not having the confidence in a bs's ability to actually speed tank?

I mean, i've not tried it first hand, and it'd be a pricey mistake to make.

I'm not suprised that people are suggesting the mach/varg, i just wanted to know if i had missed any options.
Goose99
#17 - 2011-10-28 17:04:22 UTC
Maureen Biologist wrote:
okok, the reason i dont like the idea of mach is that i can only seem to get about 300 all lvl 5 (which this cahracter is not in the first place) burst tank out of it using a gist A type large booster (got one lying around), a cnavy shield boost amp, and an em hard+invul. not much more with, for instance, a pith a-type hardener.

Im familiar with low tank values, i have much experience on other characters using a tengu for lvl 4's that perma runs about 250dps tank and never has issues in lvl 4's so maybe this is me just not having the confidence in a bs's ability to actually speed tank?

I mean, i've not tried it first hand, and it'd be a pricey mistake to make.

I'm not suprised that people are suggesting the mach/varg, i just wanted to know if i had missed any options.


It depends on damage profile. Against EM, you can get more out of it by running 3 hardeners and dropping amp. Although against EM, Vargur won't really do better, as least not if you preserve the same number of gyros and te/tc for gank.

That said, speed tanking a Mach won't work nearly as well as a tengu, it's bigger and slightly slower.
Captain Nares
O3 Corporation
#18 - 2011-10-28 17:07:20 UTC
Vargur. Better for l4's than Mach imo.

Bad thing about it is that marauder skill is useless for anythig xept PvE.
Good thing is that lvl4 is already OK.
Orlacc
#19 - 2011-10-28 17:08:00 UTC
You would be foolish not to go from Mael to Mach if you enjoy projectile BS.

"Measure Twice, Cut Once."
Captain Nares
O3 Corporation
#20 - 2011-10-28 17:26:50 UTC
Orlacc wrote:
You would be foolish not to go from Mael to Mach if you enjoy projectile BS.

I can't enjoy Mach on lvl4 coz of low tank/necessity to fit a capbooster, and short lock range. Mach is exellent PvP ship, but overrated PvE ship.

Here is sample Vargur fit. Cheap and effective:

[Vargur, Sample 1]
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Tracking Enhancer II

Gist B-Type 100MN Afterburner
Gist C-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range

800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
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