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PvP Arena maybe?
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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#181 - 2013-03-07 16:31:55 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Rek Seven wrote:


Why even post this trash dude? Vexor's die to iterons all the time do they? Shocked Seriously, if you haven't got any useful input, i don't give a **** what you have to say.


Even the industrial pilots are better than you

Also look up issue 21 of the E-ON mag, you will find in the 50 mil isk challange section a pvp iteron V that went on a rampage killing everything from cruisers to a battleship.

Want more? I have more if you want to see it.
LOL56
STK Scientific
The Initiative.
#182 - 2013-03-07 16:35:08 UTC
Arena style gameplay is already implemented in EVE, its called the Alliance Tournament. If you want to play in Arena style gameplay in EVE, then do what it takes to get on a tournament team (Build one, get the people together, pay the fees, join an alliance, show your a good PvPer and get on there team, or whatever). If your too bad at eve to be on an AT team, then HTFU or get out.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#183 - 2013-03-07 17:26:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Solstice Project
First of all i want to say that 1) and 2) of my post before are enough reason that an Arena will never happen,
but i'll still address his reponse because after this post i'll eat the one in bacon wrapped sausage + french fries
i had for lunch and spared for later ... which is in a few minutes. ^_^
Yes, you all may want one too ... No, you won't get it. ^_^ (hope i'm torturing some of you now :)

Rek Seven wrote:
Okay so arenas would be okay if done right and within the current mechanics?
Yes, which would make them completely obsolete, because then they weren't Arenas anymore.

An Arena in an MMO usually is an instanced spot where nobody else can join in,
or only join in with strict limitations regarding interaction between all those in the arena,
including in between spectators and combatants.

Quote:
1) "Arena limits where you can go" - No it wouldn't, you would be free to come and go as you please the same as you can do in pvp and pve. If you leave the field you would lose the match. An arena is simply a place where small competitive battles can happen where the victor gets some kind of reward.
You haven't thought this through.
I wasn't talking about people leaving the Arena, but people outside warping into it.
If that's not possible, it would violate 1) and if it's possible, but only as spectator, it would violate 2). (see my post before)

Furthermore, to test ships and fittings nobody actually needs an Arena. (see my response to below)

Quote:
2) "You can engage anybody at any time" - Not really. You can't engage someone who is docked, in a pos or cloaked but there are other ways you can interact with them. Spectators would be able to bet on games and even suicide gank a contestant if they really wanted to get concorded.
With this point you are not only shooting yourself,
but also ending this discussion all by yourself.

First of all are misquoting me. No *game mechanic* whatsoever prevents anybody from warping to anybody else.
You can always warp towards a player who is in a POS, but the POS' shields only prevent you from getting too close.
POS are set up by players and not "game mechanics preventing anybody from reaching him".
It's possible to kill the POS to reach the player and there's no game mechanic preventing that either.
It's just boring.

Anyhow, I thought it was rather obvious that we were talking about people *in space*.

And now the part that works against you. I'm wondering why nobody else noticed it.
If people are able to interfere ("if they wanted to get CONCORDed") then it's not an Arena anymore.
Then it's just a random point in space, for which an Arena (as pure graphical goody) isn't even needed.

People at the Boundless Creations Station in Hek have fights all the time. Before Retribution, they used cans.
Now with the Duel-Mechanic, they use that. People always did that and 90% of fights are honoured.
If i "surprisingly" show up right when the losers ship explodes and kill his pod ... well ... as you stated above,
an Arena wouldn't prevent me from doing that, which makes it obsolete.

I was adressing the other points too, but the window complained "Too many quotes" so i copied them,
but then copied something else and lost them. As you have totally negated the point of an Arena all by yourself,
there is no further need to address the other points anyway.

There's just one more thing. Combat (PvP) can't be unbalanced. It may be unfair for the loser who gets his ass kicked
by 20 people who jump in ... but that's simply realistic. Ships can be unbalanced, but combat can't.


TL;DR for those who can't be bothered to read the above (yeah i'm nice ... this time ...):

OP negated the whole point of an Arena, because he said spectators could interfere via suicide,
thus making an Arena completely obsolete, because then would be just a random point in space anyway.
Therefore the only valid conclusion is that an Arena is not necessarily at all, because it doesn't change anything anyway.

(all besides 1) and 2) of my previous post, which shows that Arenas have no ground in EvE anyway).


And thus ... /Thread.
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
#184 - 2013-03-07 17:29:28 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:


Why even post this trash dude? Vexor's die to iterons all the time do they? Shocked Seriously, if you haven't got any useful input, i don't give a **** what you have to say.


Even the industrial pilots are better than you

Also look up issue 21 of the E-ON mag, you will find in the 50 mil isk challange section a pvp iteron V that went on a rampage killing everything from cruisers to a battleship.

Want more? I have more if you want to see it.



I too can use alts to create kills that really wouldn't happen against a competent enemy...Cool


Signature removed - CCP Eterne
Irsam Samri
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#185 - 2013-03-07 18:04:06 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:
And like you said, how is change bad when done right and in the spirit of the game?

Because it is not?
There are core mechanics that set this game apart from others.

1)Everybody can go whereever he wants. No game mechanic completely hinders anybody from doing so.
An Arena would.

2)Everybody can engage anybody else. No game mechanic hinders anybody from doing so.
An Arena would.

Even if 1) would not be violated (spectators), 2) would.

It is not in the spirit of the game.
But there is more!

As long as people would lose ships, it also would not drive more people to combat. Furthermore, new players would not actually be trained well in this artificial combat scenario, because it is artificial.
They would then refuse to fight in a realistic, aka unfair, environment... which EvE simply is.

There simply isnt one single argument working for Arenas* and thus they will never happen, but keep wasting your time.

*as long as they violate either 1), 2) or both


Faction warfare plexes hinder "everybody" from going where they want and engaging anyone they want. How are t hey any different?
Sarah Schneider
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#186 - 2013-03-07 18:32:16 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
Sarah Schneider wrote:

This argument is silly and you should stop it.


It's not a silly argument when there are people like you who seem to think eve is just about ganking and blowing stuff up.

How is a arena risk free anyway? Someone is going to lose their ship... Straight

I'm yet to hear a valid argument as to why they shouldn't implement arenas other that someones personal opinion of how they think EVE is "meant to be played".

1 . There is no proof that arena combat would take anything away from current forms of PVP. Logically you would expect more people to become interested in PVP.

2. Arena, combat might help people to understand that it's okay to lose a ship or two.

3. It would allow noobs to test out their ships in a controlled/fair environment before they jump into low sec and get ganked on a gate Blink

Thoughts?

Oh God, you still don't get it? It is NOT about PVP, it is NOT about risk, it is ABOUT the SANDBOX.

I don't care what people do in this game, they can go blow stuff up on a daily basis, they can scam others all day long, they can mine and avoid pvp for years for all I care. It is about the concept, the basic premise, the single friggin reason Eve existed in the first place, the gameplay in which anyone can do whatever they want within the constraints of the game mechanics and inflict the same thing to others.

"EVE Online has the odd distinction of being one of the only MMOs in which the developers have almost no control over the active storyline." -Brendan Drain, massively.

No other MMOs in existence even came close to Eve, no other MMO that fully grasp the sandbox concept ever existed for so long and keeps growing. A lot, I mean a lot of players, will fight for that single concept that makes it unique.

"I'd rather have other players get shot by other players than not interacting with others" -CCP Soundwave
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#187 - 2013-03-07 18:39:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
Solstice, you really shouldn't have gone through all that trouble to spout the same mindless drivel that the other nay sayers have already said.

You missed many of the points i was trying to make. Your arguments are weak and to claim victory by saying "thread end" at the end of your own post backs that up.

EVERY ISSUE THAT YOU GUYS RAISE CAN BE OVERCOME WITH GOOD GAME DESIGN!

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#188 - 2013-03-07 19:14:14 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
Solstice, you really shouldn't have gone through all that trouble to spout the same mindless drivel that the other nay sayers have already said.

You missed many of the points i was trying to make. Your arguments are weak and to claim victory by saying "thread end" at the end of your own post backs that up.

EVERY ISSUE THAT YOU GUYS RAISE CAN BE OVERCOME WITH GOOD GAME DESIGN!


Aside from the fact that arenas have killed pvp in every game they have touched.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#189 - 2013-03-07 19:14:51 UTC
Beekeeper Bob wrote:



I too can use alts to create kills that really wouldn't happen against a competent enemy...Cool




Got eveidence to back up that outright lie?
Bud Austrene
Secure Haven
#190 - 2013-03-07 21:22:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Bud Austrene
The emotional attacks that this subject seems to draw have no real substance.
They are based on FEAR of change.

But change is how things are improved and made better.
If the change turns out to be bad, then it can be fixed when more facts are available.

What would be the harm if CCP was to incorporate a fair arena.
They could fix it as they do now with all the upgrades to the game or if it had unfix able problems, it could be dropped.

The only way to know the truth would be to give it a try.

Yes I am an alt. I see no reason to make it easy for bullies and greifers

Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#191 - 2013-03-07 22:34:57 UTC
Alice Saki wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:
And like you said, how is change bad when done right and in the spirit of the game?

Because it is not?
There are core mechanics that set this game apart from others.

1)Everybody can go whereever he wants. No game mechanic completely hinders anybody from doing so.
An Arena would.

2)Everybody can engage anybody else. No game mechanic hinders anybody from doing so.
An Arena would.

Even if 1) would not be violated (spectators), 2) would.

It is not in the spirit of the game.
But there is more!

As long as people would lose ships, it also would not drive more people to combat. Furthermore, new players would not actually be trained well in this artificial combat scenario, because it is artificial.
They would then refuse to fight in a realistic, aka unfair, environment... which EvE simply is.

There simply isnt one single argument working for Arenas and thus they will never happen, but keep wasting your time.


/thread


Invulnerable POS kissing OGB

/thread

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Alek Row
Silent Step
#192 - 2013-03-07 22:58:25 UTC
If you want it, why don`t you make one?
Get enough people to lock a system and to enforce your rules, sell the tickets at Jita to get isk for rewards.
It would be a success. Not good enough? Too much work? You want CCP to do it for you?
Wrong game.

Obs:
Are you going to the Tuskers Deathrace?
Or will you wait for CCP to create a race track for you?
Bud Austrene
Secure Haven
#193 - 2013-03-07 23:20:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Bud Austrene
Alek Row wrote:
If you want it, why don`t you make one?
Get enough people to lock a system and to enforce your rules, sell the tickets at Jita to get isk for rewards.
It would be a success. Not good enough? Too much work? You want CCP to do it for you?
Wrong game.

Obs:
Are you going to the Tuskers Deathrace?
Or will you wait for CCP to create a race track for you?




I fail to see what would be in it for me to make one.
This is not something I want for me, directly.
I think it might be a way to help insure the future of EVE in a positive way.
But it is not what i want to do. CCP would be the one to profit from a safe arena feature.
But if they can't see that then I am not going to do it for them.
I don't want a job in EVE.

Yes I am an alt. I see no reason to make it easy for bullies and greifers

Sarah Schneider
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#194 - 2013-03-08 21:30:31 UTC
Bud Austrene wrote:
The emotional attacks that this subject seems to draw have no real substance.
They are based on FEAR of change.

But change is how things are improved and made better.
If the change turns out to be bad, then it can be fixed when more facts are available.

What would be the harm if CCP was to incorporate a fair arena.
They could fix it as they do now with all the upgrades to the game or if it had unfix able problems, it could be dropped.

The only way to know the truth would be to give it a try.

A "fair" arena implies a change that's opposite of what a sandbox game should be. It is by definition contradicts what a sandbox game should have. The core of this game is the sandbox, it's Eve's biggest selling point, it's Eve's main design philosophy. It is harmful to Eve because the context and definition of what you stated an arena is.

Fear of change? CCP just implemented one of the biggest "change" ever, the first attempt ever made in video game history to connect two different gaming platform. CCP has already gone into the history book because of this project, that is DUST. That's as extreme of a 'change' it can get. They've never brought forward the idea of an Arena (at least not by your definition of an arena), not because they fear the change, it's because it simply goes against the design principle.

Wait, what? so you're saying that CCP should invest time, resources and money, that they could have devoted into developing something else, like dunno, DUST for example? or ship balancing or V3 or heck, sov mechanics? into something that goes against the basic design principles of the game, just because it may work? oh hey, if it doesn't work let's just throw away those thousand dollars of RL money right? who cares.

"I'd rather have other players get shot by other players than not interacting with others" -CCP Soundwave
Alara IonStorm
#195 - 2013-03-08 22:14:13 UTC
Sarah Schneider wrote:

A "fair" arena implies a change that's opposite of what a sandbox game should be. It is by definition contradicts what a sandbox game should have. The core of this game is the sandbox, it's Eve's biggest selling point, it's Eve's main design philosophy. It is harmful to Eve because the context and definition of what you stated an arena is.

Fear of change? CCP just implemented one of the biggest "change" ever, the first attempt ever made in video game history to connect two different gaming platform. CCP has already gone into the history book because of this project, that is DUST. That's as extreme of a 'change' it can get. They've never brought forward the idea of an Arena (at least not by your definition of an arena), not because they fear the change, it's because it simply goes against the design principle.

I disagree, Alliance tournament is awesome no matter how much you dislike the fairness of it.

I think CCP should implement the mechanic for everyone, it already has a large fanbase.
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