EVE General Discussion

So we have all learned a lesson today.

Null does indeed suck for industry, Some people who scream for numbers don't like it when people post said numbers, crying is being misused and WI. are not the worst posters in EVE.

What null sec industry needs is the ability to anchor a POS near any moon. It would also be great if they could do research, invention, and somehow extract goodies from those nearby moons. Maybe run reactions? Or if they could somehow produce the most expensive ships in the game...that would be a bonus.

Null sec also needs a game mechanic introduced where you could claim sovereignty over systems, even entire constellations. But then you'd need to be able to form an alliance with other players and corporations to protect it all. I suppose eventually they might run out of industry slots, so they would need a way to go to war with other alliances so they could invade their systems in order to expand, control more space, and have more industry.

Ya. That would all be very cool. If only...

This is just asking for information that folks like you can use to say "see, you can make money in null".

The problem is that "averages" (which also might not turn out how you think lol) don't tell the full story even if you have the information.

"Averages" don't take into account the fact that their are a total of THREE respawning forsaken hubs max in any upgraded system, meaning those forsaken hubs can support steady isk making activity of exactly TWO players, as opposed to the INFINITE number of players a single high sec agent can support.

OR the fact that there are many more agents in a single high sec constellation than their are upgraded null sec systems in an entire region (in the same way single null sec systems can have more indy slots than whole null sec regions).

OR the fact that one cloaky ship with an active pilot and a covert cyno can shut down an upgraded system where as nothing short of the server going down or an incursion popping up can shut down Motsu lol.

etc etc. I recently took my tengu alt gu out of null sec an put him in high sec (in the same tengu) scanning down 4/10s and making fat loots without even having to glance at local as opposed to doing yet another fleet staging point escalation path that takes me though 15 null sec systems only to give me ....nothing, after dodging numerous reds and neuts....

I understand you high sec types trying to safeguard your self interest, but the good of the game is whats important here. The same way you should not be forced by game mechanics or circumstance to go to null, i shouldn't be forced OUT of null (ie having to keep alts in high to make money) because High Sec is more profitable (over time) and easy.

What null sec needs is a lot more slots at a price that lets us compete with high sec. That could mean either charging high sec the same as it would cost to run hundreds of POS or adding a new outpost and the ability to put as many in a single system as there are stations in high sec systems.

I have no problem with you coming up with a list of questions as well.
My list was but a small subset of the information that would be required to gather the true state of the class warfare struggle going on, and ANY data, if it is accurate, is not a bad thing.

However, on the flip side, ANY data, viewed in a vacuum, is complete garbage, and no better that the standard propaganda we see on the forums.

Ugh.
Yes. Soon™

You answered your own question. Null needs more industry because [random]% of the items are bought in high and transported rather than produced locally — that's not how it should be. Null-based industrialists are supposed to be able to work in null, supplying null locally, without it being a stupid thing to attempt.

Obviously, there is a market for stuff out there, or all that importing wouldn't happen. The problem is that the game mechanics are so imbalanced that you can't reasonably supply that market in what should be the most efficient manner: by gathering and building where you live. The game effectively prohibits you from building the empires the game is meant to let you build.

Case in point about my previous post about data.
Data in and of itself is never a bad thing.
But viewed in a vacuum is is worthless.

I am glad that Tippia answered the question about mfg slots by sec status, and the more granular, the better.
But ultimately, there has to be a lot more data to frame the thrust of where you are likely going with it.
Things like minerals used in high sec mfg versus supercap mfg would also be useful in painting an accurate picture, or how many high sec mfg slots exist in POS's and are onlined and being used at any one time, would also better give a picture of the overall economic situation.

The number of mfg slots in each region, or security sector, is virtually worthless as a standalone item.

I think you're missing the entire premise of null sec. The only thing null sec needs is more innovative players.

So how exactly do we get the slots we need while keeping the costs of running these things are the same level of high sec.

I'm not an expert on anything, and I don't claim to be. I'm sure there is some merit to the null sec complaints, and it's no secret that POS's need to be improved. But making null more like high sec or nerfing high sec isn't the answer. Again, I would argue that null is designed to be the final frontier and completely player-driven. It's the players who should address the problem, not demand more NPC interaction.

Actively absorb high sec indy corps if you need more slots in your alliance. Set up trade agreements, or even trade hubs.