These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Ships & Modules

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
12Next page
 

AFK boosting alts in pos
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
DHB WildCat
Out of Focus
Odin's Call
#1 - 2013-03-07 14:55:29 UTC
I have done some roams recently where I have come across some gang boosting alts that I figured I could scan down and kill then go after the gang to even the odds. However 90% or more of the alts I've scanned down are happily sitting in a pos afk, boosting their gang members.

Is there any changes on the horizon to end pos boosting and make them not work in pos shields like EVERYTHING else does?

Even if they come out 1k from the shields they can then be killed.
Leopold Caine
Stillwater Corporation
#2 - 2013-03-07 14:57:25 UTC
CCP has said that in the future ganglinks will only affect ships on the same grid as the booster.
Not sure when exactly, it might even be during the CS/Tech3 rehaul in the summer expansion.
  • Leopold Caine, Domination Malakim

Angels are never far...

Stillwater Corporation Recruitment Open - Angel Cartel Bloc
Tarsas Phage
Sniggerdly
#3 - 2013-03-07 17:57:52 UTC
Leopold Caine wrote:
CCP has said that in the future ganglinks will only affect ships on the same grid as the booster.
Not sure when exactly, it might even be during the CS/Tech3 rehaul in the summer expansion.


Forcing Rorqs to industrial siege in the belt. Heh.

On the other hand, people blaming pos'd/offgrid links as a crutch for their excuse at failing to win some fight is getting pretty long in the tooth. "We couldn't win, IT WAS THE LINK ALT'S FAULT." It really has become the new "Because of Falcon" in this regard.

Don't be a poor and get your own link alts to even it up, ya cheapos. Next up: reshipping from POS SMAs is OP because there's no undock to camp AND THEY CAN WARP AWAY RISK-FREE. After that: Ammo in guns is an exploit.
Mire Stoude
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-03-07 18:12:43 UTC
If they are AFK how are they a threat? (amidoingthisright?)
Inkarr Hashur
Skyline Federation
#5 - 2013-03-07 19:11:12 UTC
DHB WildCat wrote:
I have done some roams recently where I have come across some gang boosting alts that I figured I could scan down and kill then go after the gang to even the odds. However 90% or more of the alts I've scanned down are happily sitting in a pos afk, boosting their gang members.

Is there any changes on the horizon to end pos boosting and make them not work in pos shields like EVERYTHING else does?

Even if they come out 1k from the shields they can then be killed.


CCP taking its sweet time to implement a common-sense change as usual.
DHB WildCat
Out of Focus
Odin's Call
#6 - 2013-03-07 19:24:20 UTC
Tarsas Phage wrote:
Leopold Caine wrote:
CCP has said that in the future ganglinks will only affect ships on the same grid as the booster.
Not sure when exactly, it might even be during the CS/Tech3 rehaul in the summer expansion.


Forcing Rorqs to industrial siege in the belt. Heh.

On the other hand, people blaming pos'd/offgrid links as a crutch for their excuse at failing to win some fight is getting pretty long in the tooth. "We couldn't win, IT WAS THE LINK ALT'S FAULT." It really has become the new "Because of Falcon" in this regard.

Don't be a poor and get your own link alts to even it up, ya cheapos. Next up: reshipping from POS SMAs is OP because there's no undock to camp AND THEY CAN WARP AWAY RISK-FREE. After that: Ammo in guns is an exploit.



You seem to be confused about what Im saying. Offgrid doesnt bother me. I can probe them down and kill them. However if they are in a pos, am I supposed to drop supers on the pos, then wait for the reinforce timer to finish, to then destroy the pos, all in hopes that the gang I wanted to fight is still there after a few days?

There is a big difference between being completely invulnerable in a pos shield as aposed to being in space where you can be killed at any given time.
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#7 - 2013-03-07 19:25:50 UTC
Tarsas Phage wrote:
Leopold Caine wrote:
CCP has said that in the future ganglinks will only affect ships on the same grid as the booster.
Not sure when exactly, it might even be during the CS/Tech3 rehaul in the summer expansion.


Forcing Rorqs to industrial siege in the belt. Heh.

On the other hand, people blaming pos'd/offgrid links as a crutch for their excuse at failing to win some fight is getting pretty long in the tooth. "We couldn't win, IT WAS THE LINK ALT'S FAULT." It really has become the new "Because of Falcon" in this regard.

Don't be a poor and get your own link alts to even it up, ya cheapos. Next up: reshipping from POS SMAs is OP because there's no undock to camp AND THEY CAN WARP AWAY RISK-FREE. After that: Ammo in guns is an exploit.

Eeh, to a point. I engaged a Slicer in a Plex expecting normal engagement range (24-30km) in my Coercer. Assuming standard combat range I would be able to survive if not win that fight. But in reality he kited at over 30km the whole time, and outran me substantially. He wouldn't have been able to kite at over 30 without risking me slingshotting him and escaping (no chance of keeping him in range long enough for a kill) if not for his Loki boosts.

Oh, and it really can be the link alt's fault. With longer point/web range as well as faster/tankier ships it's possible for them to easily overwhelm a normally fair fight. And sure, you could say everyone should just get their own. Yes, that's possible, but what about when their boosts are safed up in a POS in a hostile system? No risk for huge benefit. Really disagree with the way that is. At least the Falcon alt has to risk his ship by bringing it on grid. If you're expecting it you can kill the ship.


Inkarr Hashur wrote:
DHB WildCat wrote:
I have done some roams recently where I have come across some gang boosting alts that I figured I could scan down and kill then go after the gang to even the odds. However 90% or more of the alts I've scanned down are happily sitting in a pos afk, boosting their gang members.

Is there any changes on the horizon to end pos boosting and make them not work in pos shields like EVERYTHING else does?

Even if they come out 1k from the shields they can then be killed.


CCP struggling to remove OGB's without completely breaking the code for everything.

FTFY
Tarsas Phage
Sniggerdly
#8 - 2013-03-07 19:32:38 UTC
DHB WildCat wrote:

There is a big difference between being completely invulnerable in a pos shield as aposed to being in space where you can be killed at any given time.


Sure, a true and valid point.

What I'm getting at is my annoyance at people instantly reaching for the nerf bat when they encounter ~something hard~ to overcome instead of devising a counter - or in the case, a leveler - to it.

As for links in POSes specifically, it's pretty apparent that you're in an area that the people responsible for both the links and the POS live (otherwise the POS would have likely been disposed of by those who really do control the area.) Ergo, you've ventured onto their home turf. Home-field advantage is an accepted aspect of many games, both virtual and in real life. I accept links in POSes as one example of that in EVE, and if I know ahead of time that those will be a issue in the fight, I plan accordingly to even the field or counter their effects.
Rolstra
Moo's Mudpit
#9 - 2013-03-07 20:04:25 UTC
The Booster haters weren't getting enought traffic on this point in the general discussion board so they littered here as well.

I can't wait till they remove CS boosts, as they are OP.
Then they can get rid of overheating boosts. as a overheated module must be OP as well.

Pretty soon the only reason to train anything in the game will be to cow tow to the demands of ballance, so a noob ship can kill a POS because that would make everything fair.
Ersahi Kir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2013-03-07 20:24:35 UTC
Rolstra wrote:
The Booster haters weren't getting enought traffic on this point in the general discussion board so they littered here as well.

I can't wait till they remove CS boosts, as they are OP.
Then they can get rid of overheating boosts. as a overheated module must be OP as well.

Pretty soon the only reason to train anything in the game will be to cow tow to the demands of ballance, so a noob ship can kill a POS because that would make everything fair.


Lets put this in perspective.

AFK ice mining requires more player interaction than fleet boosting under a POS shield. Requiring someone to be in the same zip code as their computer to do something in game doesn't seem like the slippery slope you're making it out to be.
Rolstra
Moo's Mudpit
#11 - 2013-03-07 20:52:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Rolstra
Ersahi Kir wrote:
Rolstra wrote:
The Booster haters weren't getting enought traffic on this point in the general discussion board so they littered here as well.

I can't wait till they remove CS boosts, as they are OP.
Then they can get rid of overheating boosts. as a overheated module must be OP as well.

Pretty soon the only reason to train anything in the game will be to cow tow to the demands of ballance, so a noob ship can kill a POS because that would make everything fair.


Lets put this in perspective.

AFK ice mining requires more player interaction than fleet boosting under a POS shield. Requiring someone to be in the same zip code as their computer to do something in game doesn't seem like the slippery slope you're making it out to be.


It is tough as hell to kill ships with maxed fleet boost, it is also hard to scan down and find sig reduction boosted fleet, it is very difficult to kill a dual XL-ASB fitted ship, it is impossible to find and kill a cloaked ship in local, it’s impossible ...

I use some of these things for my game play, but I also encounter most of them every day. I have plans to incorporate all of those things into my repertoire over the next couple years because they give me the advantage I have worked diligently to overcome in the last 3 years. The idea that someone else wants them removed because they didn’t have the patience to train and overcome it makes me post ridiculous Slippery slope fallacies in forums to try to represent the lengths some people will go though to get a win. I never considered the possibility that is was OP I just adapted and removed the chances for them to use it against me.

AFK booster in POS: don’t fight on their ground without bringing your own.
Sig reduction boosted ships: Bring an extremely capable scanner with 1bil in implants.
Dual Xl-ASB; make them expend their charges and then hammer it
AFK cloaked ships in local: move, and keep moving while recording the names, AFK cloaks don’t relocate..

There are few ‘things’ that can’t be overcome with other ‘things’ in the game. Not using them seems lazy and irreverent of the time and money put into getting them. I would not want my opponent disadvantaged because I wasn’t up to the task of killing him. I want to match him and then stand on common ground.

But I might be a romantic and EVE really is about overkill and domination through trickery, not skills and strategy.
Ersahi Kir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2013-03-07 21:10:39 UTC
Rolstra wrote:

AFK booster in POS: don’t fight on their ground without bringing your own.
Sig reduction boosted ships: Bring an extremely capable scanner with 1bil in implants.
Dual Xl-ASB; make them expend their charges and then hammer it
AFK cloaked ships in local: move, and keep moving while recording the names, AFK cloaks don’t relocate..


Sig reduced boosted ships means you don't have a pos to hide under, and the character has to be actively monitored (dual box or whatever). If the boosting ship is just in the middle of no where boosting and isn't being monitored it can easily be destroyed.

Dual ASB ship has to actively be played to have any affect on a system.

AFK cloaked ships have no effect on a system or fights that happen within until they are no longer afk.

An AFK booster under a POS shield could have logged in 12 hours ago, left the house, and flown out of the country while still having a large effect on any battle that takes place in the same system.

One of these things is not like the other, and that's why they're changing off grid boosting.
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#13 - 2013-03-07 21:32:24 UTC
As someone that uses an OGB I find it hard to believe they will remove OGB’s yes I agree in a POS is cowardly and unfair, but putting them on grid is also not the solution. Fleet boosts should apply to a fleet regardless of their location in system. Roquals would become space trash if they had to Indy up in a belt and then cycle down to GTFO no one would use it, the toons would become archived, and a year of training would be flushed down the toilet. Combat booster would not be used because any FC worth his salt would primary them, the only counter would be a fleet of command ships so the booster was hidden in plain sight.

I spent a year training an alt for command ships and all command links; I use this toon actively and move it on grid when I need to defend it, leaving it off grid when I don’t see any danger. Having spent 12 months worth of subscription and a fairly large amount of ISK perfecting it, I can see how much it is worth for both small and large gangs. I am confident I am not alone in saying if Off-GB are made On-GB, that account will become another archived toon and my money and a couple hundred others will go elsewhere.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Rolstra
Moo's Mudpit
#14 - 2013-03-07 21:47:15 UTC
Ersahi Kir wrote:
Rolstra wrote:

AFK booster in POS: don’t fight on their ground without bringing your own.
Sig reduction boosted ships: Bring an extremely capable scanner with 1bil in implants.
Dual Xl-ASB; make them expend their charges and then hammer it
AFK cloaked ships in local: move, and keep moving while recording the names, AFK cloaks don’t relocate..


Sig reduced boosted ships means you don't have a pos to hide under, and the character has to be actively monitored (dual box or whatever). If the boosting ship is just in the middle of no where boosting and isn't being monitored it can easily be destroyed.

Dual ASB ship has to actively be played to have any affect on a system.

AFK cloaked ships have no effect on a system or fights that happen within until they are no longer afk.

An AFK booster under a POS shield could have logged in 12 hours ago, left the house, and flown out of the country while still having a large effect on any battle that takes place in the same system.

One of these things is not like the other, and that's why they're changing off grid boosting.

My point was not about the similarities of these types of game play it was the consensus of the communities that said these things were all OP. All of these things are held up as the game breakers for fair play. And the nerfbat keep swinging.
Inkarr Hashur
Skyline Federation
#15 - 2013-03-07 22:01:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Inkarr Hashur
Goldensaver wrote:


Inkarr Hashur wrote:
DHB WildCat wrote:
I have done some roams recently where I have come across some gang boosting alts that I figured I could scan down and kill then go after the gang to even the odds. However 90% or more of the alts I've scanned down are happily sitting in a pos afk, boosting their gang members.

Is there any changes on the horizon to end pos boosting and make them not work in pos shields like EVERYTHING else does?

Even if they come out 1k from the shields they can then be killed.


CCP struggling to remove OGB's without completely breaking the code for everything.

FTFY


Well hey maybe you're right. They're still struggling to fix the NPC tracking disruption code after all.

Though no one likes excuses.

Edit: seems on sisi that NPC TD is just getting a nerf. I wonder if this is instead of an actual fix, or a band-aid.
Naoru Kozan
Perkone
Caldari State
#16 - 2013-03-07 23:40:01 UTC
Rolstra wrote:
Ersahi Kir wrote:
Rolstra wrote:
The Booster haters weren't getting enought traffic on this point in the general discussion board so they littered here as well.

I can't wait till they remove CS boosts, as they are OP.
Then they can get rid of overheating boosts. as a overheated module must be OP as well.

Pretty soon the only reason to train anything in the game will be to cow tow to the demands of ballance, so a noob ship can kill a POS because that would make everything fair.


Lets put this in perspective.

AFK ice mining requires more player interaction than fleet boosting under a POS shield. Requiring someone to be in the same zip code as their computer to do something in game doesn't seem like the slippery slope you're making it out to be.


It is tough as hell to kill ships with maxed fleet boost, it is also hard to scan down and find sig reduction boosted fleet, it is very difficult to kill a dual XL-ASB fitted ship, it is impossible to find and kill a cloaked ship in local, it’s impossible ...

I use some of these things for my game play, but I also encounter most of them every day. I have plans to incorporate all of those things into my repertoire over the next couple years because they give me the advantage I have worked diligently to overcome in the last 3 years. The idea that someone else wants them removed because they didn’t have the patience to train and overcome it makes me post ridiculous Slippery slope fallacies in forums to try to represent the lengths some people will go though to get a win. I never considering the possibility that is was OP I just adapted and removed the chances for them to use it against me.

AFK booster in POS: don’t fight on their ground without bringing your own.
Sig reduction boosted ships: Bring an extremely capable scanner with 1bil in implants.
Dual Xl-ASB; make them expend their charges and then hammer it
AFK cloaked ships in local: move, and keep moving while recording the names, AFK cloaks don’t relocate..

There are few ‘things’ that can’t be overcome with other ‘things’ in the game. Not using them seems lazy and irreverent of the time and money put into getting them. I would not want my opponent disadvantaged because I wasn’t up to the task of killing him. I want to match him and then stand on common ground.

But I might be a romantic and EVE really is about overkill and domination through trickery, not skills and strategy.



This man gets it. But yeah, POSed links are pretty stupid. It should be easy to tweak it so links don't work inside a pos.
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#17 - 2013-03-08 03:07:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Goldiiee
Naoru Kozan wrote:
Rolstra wrote:
Ersahi Kir wrote:
Rolstra wrote:
The Booster haters weren't getting enought traffic on this point in the general discussion board so they littered here as well.

I can't wait till they remove CS boosts, as they are OP.
Then they can get rid of overheating boosts. as a overheated module must be OP as well.

Pretty soon the only reason to train anything in the game will be to cow tow to the demands of ballance, so a noob ship can kill a POS because that would make everything fair.


Lets put this in perspective.

AFK ice mining requires more player interaction than fleet boosting under a POS shield. Requiring someone to be in the same zip code as their computer to do something in game doesn't seem like the slippery slope you're making it out to be.


It is tough as hell to kill ships with maxed fleet boost, it is also hard to scan down and find sig reduction boosted fleet, it is very difficult to kill a dual XL-ASB fitted ship, it is impossible to find and kill a cloaked ship in local, it’s impossible ...

I use some of these things for my game play, but I also encounter most of them every day. I have plans to incorporate all of those things into my repertoire over the next couple years because they give me the advantage I have worked diligently to overcome in the last 3 years. The idea that someone else wants them removed because they didn’t have the patience to train and overcome it makes me post ridiculous Slippery slope fallacies in forums to try to represent the lengths some people will go though to get a win. I never considering the possibility that is was OP I just adapted and removed the chances for them to use it against me.

AFK booster in POS: don’t fight on their ground without bringing your own.
Sig reduction boosted ships: Bring an extremely capable scanner with 1bil in implants.
Dual Xl-ASB; make them expend their charges and then hammer it
AFK cloaked ships in local: move, and keep moving while recording the names, AFK cloaks don’t relocate..

There are few ‘things’ that can’t be overcome with other ‘things’ in the game. Not using them seems lazy and irreverent of the time and money put into getting them. I would not want my opponent disadvantaged because I wasn’t up to the task of killing him. I want to match him and then stand on common ground.

But I might be a romantic and EVE really is about overkill and domination through trickery, not skills and strategy.



This man gets it. But yeah, POSed links are pretty stupid. It should be easy to tweak it so links don't work inside a pos.

Agreed, no command ship links in a POS, but not forced on grid either.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Tarsas Phage
Sniggerdly
#18 - 2013-03-08 05:29:03 UTC
Rolstra wrote:

My point was not about the similarities of these types of game play it was the consensus of the communities that said these things were all OP. All of these things are held up as the game breakers for fair play. And the nerfbat keep swinging.


The whole notion of fair play is ludicrous. This game is hermetically sealed... anything someone else can do, you can do as well. It's not like there is any one thing that is completely out of reach of you being able to do.

Sure, one guy might have a max-skilled Damnation and you might not, but that's the privilege which comes with skillpoints and time... you could have your own as well if you invested the same.
Rolstra
Moo's Mudpit
#19 - 2013-03-08 05:57:21 UTC
Tarsas Phage wrote:
Rolstra wrote:

My point was not about the similarities of these types of game play it was the consensus of the communities that said these things were all OP. All of these things are held up as the game breakers for fair play. And the nerfbat keep swinging.


The whole notion of fair play is ludicrous. This game is hermetically sealed... anything someone else can do, you can do as well. It's not like there is any one thing that is completely out of reach of you being able to do.

Sure, one guy might have a max-skilled Damnation and you might not, but that's the privilege which comes with skillpoints and time... you could have your own as well if you invested the same.

I think you are agreeing with me, 'Just because you dont have one doesn't mean it should be nerfed.' Ah welll CCP will be the decider of this particular fiasco, we can only hope they dont listen to the whiners and turn Command ships/Command Links into Crap ships/Crap links.
Savlena Torilles
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#20 - 2013-03-08 07:13:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Savlena Torilles
For me the biggest problem is not the actual offgrid boosting or someone being inside a pos boosting making them almost invulnerable, the thing that buggs me the most is how someone can have such an impact on the game without even being at his/her keyboard. I really cant see the problem with forcing the ganglings ongrid, T3/Commandships are usually heavily tanked and with logisupport they have a huge survivability.

However making the ganglinks not work inside poses could also be a fair solution since you can, atleast, scan the boosting ship and destroy it. Still, for me, the best and most fair solution would be to force them ongrid OR make it so the opponent somehow can se that the opposing team is boosted. Some kind of effect like the invul/armor hardeners.

Thats my opinion anyway!
12Next page