EVE General Discussion

But then they wouldn't get to be amused by your "don't make this change I don't like or I will cancel my 42 accounts" spiel.
Though having reviewed your killboard I can see why such a change might be a problem for you. You certainly aren't having any trouble finding willing wardec participants at present.
But what you missed from the discussion is that these aren't the wardecs CCP or the CSM want to fix. Its the wardecs where one side docks up or drops corp.

One wonders what fraction of stuff that gets destroyed is destroyed via PvP in high sec during a non-mutual war. My guess is its a small fraction, and if high sec wars were removed the economy would hardly notice.

Of course the fraction of stuff destroyed in wars where one side turtles is zero.

This is an interesting topic. Normally I read, and I laugh, and I cry... but in the end I just keep logging on and playing whatever CCP dishes up. Overall, it's been a fun ride. I've been here 2 and some odd years and don't have any plans of leaving soon.

Non-consensual wars has shaped much of my game. When I was 8 weeks in, or so, I joined a very seriously carebearish corp. Our CEO warned all of us to put Jita on our avoid list because it was just too dangerous a place to ever go to. He genuinely had a goal of playing Eve and never losing a ship. It gets better. About a week after we joined, (my girlfriend and I) we were wardecced by a single person corp. It was one of the people going for the top of the killboards who needed more targets. Our CEO flipped out and we hid in WH space. We have been in Wspace ever since.

We now maintain a hisec/losec/Wspace presence and things have slowly changed. Living in Wspace guarantees ship loss. Eventually we had to learn things like strategy, logi, ewar, ship bonuses, WH bonuses, how to melt gracefully, and how to pony up and just bring the fracking guns online.

At some point we realized the bully isn't going to go away and we brought our ships out for a wardec. I distinctly remember the engagement. Unorganized, flying to the wrong gates, arguing over strategy, vent crippled with adrenaline fueled yelling.... But we came out of our shell and found a new game withing our beloved Eve. We killed a command ship and lost only a scanny. It was liberating. We are still carebears. We mine, we build, we mission, and incursion. But we also feel some sense of excitement when a wardec comes down. It drags us out of grind mode and puts us into a gaming style we simply can't get anywhere else. We relish the excuse to play outside of our chosen and practiced skill set and we lose ships gleefully.

A WAR is exactly that. War. You can't ask someone if they want to go to war. How is that even a consideration? It's like a goon PMing me and asking if I would like my Mackinaw blown up today.

This is Eve. Without non-consensual ship destruction it would be something else entirely. I understand the numbers. If statistics show that 70-80% wardecs go unanswered then it's easy to think that perhaps the experience needs to be tweaked to create a higher potential for fun during gaming time. But that kind of number crunching doesn't take into account the spirit, a certain intangible element of tension, that makes this game what it is. The same spirit that without - would no longer be the game that people go to when other games fail them. Several of our corp members have quit Eve for other games and have come back after a year or more because the other games simply ran out of engaging game play.

We still suck at PVP. We still do our PI, watch what we say to other players, and really get off on putting another Obi in the cooker. But if a change as dramatic as what's being discussed here were to take place... well... I know us. Our corp. We are good friends. I'm not exactly speaking for all of us, but I know Eve would lose a huge amount of it's special attraction to all of us, in one way or another. I personally can't see it being any fun at all if I am not constantly looking over my shoulder for the next unprovoked (or provoked, however it comes down) assault. I probably wouldn't last long.

War has to MEAN something for it to be anything other than griefing.

Right now, it's either a griefer wardec causing an indy corp to evaporate or just not undock for the duration, or a smaller force dec-ing a larger one and just being laughed off.
Give incentives for the smaller corps to fight, or for it to be viable for indy corps to wardec other indy corps to cause competition.

It always means something... it means someone hates you

It doesn't have to be about hate. It doesn't have to be about anything. It can be for any reason at all. It can be for financial gain, or to settle a vendetta or because it's fun. Playing a round of TF2 doesn't have to be for any particular reason, either.

70% of the wardecs go unchallenged, due to skilled players wardeccing noob corps....Why would a new player go out and get smashed repeatedly, when he's simply trying to earn isk to upgrade and pay for skill training?

Wardecs need to be changed, not gotten rid of.....

The majority of players aren't wardeccable or aren't bothered by wardecs at all in the first place.

Here's how to tell how many wardeccable players are in system:

1) Set standings for all NPC corps to orange (terrible). They aren't deccable.
2) Set standings for all nullsec alliances, or any alliance that holds sov to orange. This may include renter, training, or "citizen" corps. They live in nullsec, they don't care about highsec wars.
3) Set standings for any obvious wormhole corps/alliances to orange. This includes k162, transmission lost, no holes barred, etc. Most of their activity happens in a place you can blow them up.
4) Set standings for any obvious corps that will never undock ever to orange. Red Frog, the EOH Alliance, SOMER Blink's alliance etc. No point in wardeccing them.
5) NPC 0.0/Lowsec pirate corps/alliances are hard to find, but if you know any off by heart you can set them orange too.
6) Lastly, set any highsec mercs or alliances that enjoy fighting wars to orange. Marmite Collective, Whores in space, RvB, Eve Uni, etc.

When you go through local you will notice that there are quite a few players who have standings, filter them out and take a look at the players who don't have any standings.

- If they are part of a militia, throw them out because they are in a perma-wardec already and should be performing most of their activities in lowsec anyways.
- If their employment history consists of them rejoining the same corp over and over, they are wardec hoppers who game the system so throw them out.
- If their corp is less than about 10 players, it's likely just a recyclable alt corp or asset holding corp and likely have never been or will ever be wardecced, and wardeccing will ultimately result in the corp being closed. Throw them out if you want, but use discretion.

If you've gotten this far and haven't filtered that player out, chances are that this player is wardeccable, and does most of their activities in highsec. Whether this individual is willing to sit in this corp after it is wardecced is a different story however. You end up filtering out the majority, if not all of the players in any given system.

Why should kill reports be removed? You do realize they serve purposes other than ego boosting, right?