EVE General Discussion

Well, I guess there's absolutely nothing preventing me from investing billions in new startup costs, spending hundreds of millions more monthly on POS fuel, and using gametime that I now use to make isk freightering my goods from one end of New Eden to the other. Nothing at all. Except for the isk, the increased time requirements, and the fact that freightering goods is my least-favorite activity in the game. Nothing.

Even though nullseccers don't want to do industry in their own POS's, I'm sure I'll learn to love it - despite it adding a massive logistical challenge to my game that is currently not required.

I hope this change rolls out at the same time as null's new superores because it sure sounds super-balanced.

YK

So you went to the trouble to come up with and create a profitable business but your not willing to put in the same investment of isk and same sort of time/effort to grow it? I mean I supposed your entitiled to that opinion.

The reason "nullseccers" don't want to do industry in their POSes is solely due to reasons you don't run into in high-sec as I explained before.

I'm not suggesting I think that removing station based services is the only option, infact increasing station slot costs could work as well, that said; I really think it would be beneficial to the game as a whole if every player high, low, or null sec, had to make an investment and guard that investment in order to compete in industry at high profit levels.

Now I my self am all for increasing the cost of NPC facilities to make them slightly more expensive than POS per slot.

And I am aware that Outposts do need the ability of increased industry capabilities, but I do believe the amount of increase Tippia would like to see is frankly too much.


Similar to this but a bit less say 50=70% of what you are asking. Excluding the refine which I think is needed in POS and outposts at a base 50%...The other side of Outposts is of course the usage based SoV system but I don't want to get into that atm, as the current proposal is about doing the most good for the least developer resources.

Now POS are a pain in the butt but those willing to take the pain and the capital out lay should be rewarded not punished and outposts cost a hell of a lot more than a POS but have a lot of abilities a POS does not.

But yes a lot of the problems to other systems like the war dec system would be solved as people would actually be taking the risk from war decs, in order to gain a financial advantage.

I hope that makes sense, it has been a long night.

Oh one thing I would like to add is for there to be a way built in so that the slots on outpost would cost the same as those on a POS and made as an isk sink, so it is similar to a fueling cost on a POS.

And as I've already replied, the logistical challenges of POS manufacturing (transporting minerals to the POS, dividing minerals between various arrays, navigating/maneuvering a slow, cumbersome ship, etc.) are not sec-specific. If nullsec doesn't enjoy the task, it's nuts to suggest that highseccers should.

But "not willing to put in the same investment of isk and same sort of time/effort to grow it?" What does that even mean? I'm manufacturing now in npc stations usually on site exactly where my goods are sold. Why in the world would I want to operate multiple POS's, increasing my own costs and logistics? Because I sure don't. I fly around in a slicer delivering bpcs. I'm operating at ends of regions just to pipe goods down there to folks who are far from hubs ....because it's harder. A difficult path always has less competition. That and I genuinely know what it felt like when I was in those places for various reasons and couldn't get the basic things I needed on a day to day basis.

I guess I just don't understand why we have skills that allow the setup of station manufacturing jobs remotely, or the ability to buy/sell items remotely if none of that will soon be relevant? Why have players work on building standings with npc corps to achieve perfect refine rates if refining at a POS will be superior? Everything about the current system centers around station manufacturing. For an idea that gets thrown around so casually, the impact of such a change would affect everyone. And in highsec it would affect most folks negatively - new players disprortionately so.

In my specific case, I worked for months to build up my standings with over a dozen npc corps specifically to increase my options in-game. And yet I still run into situations where I'm in a system without a station belonging to one of them. Just two days ago, I spent 6 hours in a cov ops scouting systems because my system and all others within 3-4 jumps were mined out. I'm now 10 jumps from that location. That sort of thing happens all the time. Highsec is dynamic. You adapt and move on. But that only works because I'm not tethered to a point in space. If I had to relocate a POS every time I relocated myself, that's all I'd do.

But just because I'm opposed to my time investment in mechanic grinding being made worthless, opposed to my costs and effort being increased exponentially for the same isk, because I have no desire to be tethered to a single point in space, or my game being made orders of magnitude more complicated, does not have anything to do with being unwilling to work.

Quite the opposite actually.

YK

2% refining implant, and a 40% station [i think it was a 40% station i was using...] will still give you lossless refining on any ores you can use t2 crystals for. so 50% refining stations aren't really an advantage.

If anyone at all thinks that the quality of my gameplay will not be decreased by necessitating flying around in a freighter carrying fuel blocks instead of a slicer carrying bpcs, then we'll just have to agree to disagree.

YK

The "in one stop" was the important part of that sentence.

reading this thread i cant help to think of that CCP post saying that whoever is in charge of allocating resources asked "what should we do next?" to which some CCP devs answered "POSes should be revamped next", this lead designer then asked this small group of devs "can you tell me what would this do for the game besides being cool?" and that team couldn't come up with an answer.

pos revamp, outpost revamp, and industry revamp is THE most needed thing on this game. doing anything BUT this is postponing the inevitable for another year.

forget nerfing highsec, or buffing this and that, or even updating SOV mechanics. updating manufacturing processes, production chains, invention and research mechanics will have a blanket effect in all areas of EVE online, it will get people out of highsec, if only to set up a pos and dig themselves inside it.

pretty much all complaints can be traced back to unprofitably, or the fact that manufacturing anywhere but highsec has a skewed risk/reward ratio... and its not even a clear risk/reward thing, its more like risk+hassle+commitment/reward. revamping POSes needs to at least get rid of the hassle.


the way i see it, "bitter vets" need to bite the bullet and let at least one development cycle be used to update mechanics that have never received an update!

its not just POSes and manufacturing, its also Corp roles, corp ownership of ships and modules, corp accounting, fleet management, market mechanics, contract system. all this things have NEVER been revisited. once you have this updated/fixed then you can start talking about adding more minerals into nullsec to see if then people start producing... as it is now people don't produce because it requires many times more time, risk, and investment to do much of anything in null.

just think of how easy it would be to run an alliance/corporation manufacturing division if corp owned ships and modules could be introduced. anyone who has had to spend 6hrs straight setting up corp contracts and then monitor who's taking what from where and how many, knows the process as it is now is a nightmare... add to that the pain of managing the production made by many individuals or corporations...

people who never stepped into null always say things like "why don't you guys try to do industry in null?", well that's why. in high sec its easy to organize production, because there's a market. any attempt at production in null hits a brick wall, when allocating rewards to producers and getting the goods to the hands of the consumers has to be done manually by the alliance and cant be left in the hands of "the market".

The only way to make production costs fall below the high-sec minimum production costs with your idea is to make nullsec station & POS upkeep costs on par with highsec station costs. In other words, make it virtually free. Your 1 second solution would only reduce the material costs associated with production, people would still build stuff in highsec because it would always be cheaper regardless.

I'm going to point out once again that the reasons that null sec players consider poses a logistical challenge isn't for the same reason as high sec players. Fueling a pos is not a logistical challenge. Fueling a pos while your system is being camped by 200 hostiles with a cap fleet on call is.

I realize you have a highly specialized manufacturing model but I have to believe you would be making more money with access to cheaper or more readily available minerals/materials even if you had to pay someone to ship your goods (if you didn't want to). I'm not going to be able to convince you if you believe that any departure from your current playstyle destroys your "quality of life."