EVE General Discussion

Seemed pretty clear to me....The Dueling we have now, isn't dueling......

"duel
1.
a prearranged combat between two persons, fought with deadly weapons according to an accepted code of procedure, especially to settle a private quarrel."

Since there is no "accepted code of procedure", any outside person can and will interfere, people will use offgrid boosting, implants, expensive fits all to gain an advantage, it's not a duel.....


The only possibility of having a real dueling system is to have an Arena.
Players present themselves and their chosen ships, the Arena boss scans to verify that whatever agreed upon rules are not violated, then they are popped into the Arena.


Not sure why people have such an issue with this, other than Griefers losing the opportunity to screw up some else's duel...

Ok, now I get it. Hisec people don't have honor or integrity, and they need enforced rules and a watered-down entertainment sports made out of violence to act like decent, normal people.

It ain't supposed to be fair. Fairness has never been Eve's design philosophy and being a sandbox it should never be.


The consequences is that it drives away from the sandbox concept where everything you do in this game, someone else can come in, kick your sandcastle then laugh at you. That's the basic premise of a sandbox, everyone can do anything they want and everyone else can do anything they want to you. Arena is a controlled environment in a closed instance, you can't join in when the game tells you that you can't, it's "wrong" in the context of Eve because it devoids of that basic premise. Hence, it is not something that should exist in Eve.

Why would people think removing the incentive to participate in all of EVE Online is a good thing? And why would they think that replacing the incentive to participate in the game with a reason not to do so is a good thing? It is madness.

Honestly, its a terrible idea.

We want EVE to stay special. To keeps it's uncontrollable, risky full loot open world PVP and nothing else.

It's the reason why we love this game. It's the reason why it feels "real". Arranged fights are not "real", they are games inside a game.



This one you got right. Saying no to Arena games is the way to maintain the PVP niche.

The fundamental problem is, that an arena system similar to other MMOs have is counter to everything EVE is based on. It could work if you made it non-instanced, gave it real ship losses and CCP offered no rewards for doing it. This isn't what people mean when they talk about arenas though.

Besides that it creates problems for the rest of the game. The PvP population the game has will be split. This is an issue because of the fact, that the enjoyment of the world PvP depends heavily on the number of players flying in that world. It will snowball because an arena will suck players away from world PvP, which in turn makes it worse, which leads to more players choosing the casual access arenas. It simply sucks the life out of the actual gameworld. With a themepark this is pretty much irrelevant, but with a sandbox it takes away the whole point of playing in the EVE universe. Now the effect won't be total, but it'll make the world poorer especially in the PvP department.

It also won't be a training ground for world PvP. Primarily because people who don't world PvP now won't be doing it with arenas. Majority of them will either ignore the arena or do arena only for the all same reasons they avoid world PvP now. It also won't attract significantly more players for the simple reason, that more then every other game has arenas already. People who see arenas as must have thing are already playing something else and EVE arenas won't offer anything special compared to the competition.

Your fearmongering about stagnation is hilarious because EVE is one of the few games still growing while most of the games with arenas aren't. I don't therefore see how you can offer it as some kind of a miracle cure, when it didn't save them or get EVE players to go there. You then justify it by syaing it's needed to maintain EVE's PvP niche. You mean maintain that special niche by copying what others have made? Maintain it by trying to be what others are? What other worse games, what other failed games are? I think you're just trying to fling everything that comes to mind at us and hoping something might stick without actually thinking about how incoherent it makes your argument.

As I initially said arena tools might ba an ok addition, but they'd have to be limited to the point it's not really an arena system anymore. It would be more of an tournament making tool for the players, that allowed interfering, caused actual losses and where the players provide the rewards. So nothing like arenas from other games, but a tool made for EVE for the players to create more content in the sandbox. Something to help them manage the things they already do. That would a good addition to the game. Copied, ill-fitting arena systems from other themepark MMOs, not so much.

What about just making the dueling system such that cheating is not possible?
That is basically the type of arena venue I am in favor of.

Is cheating such a big issue that having one place where it is not possible such a big thing?
Could some one explain why having one place where cheating was not allowed would just ruin EVE?

Just because EVE has survived for so long does not mean that CCP has not been fixing it and improving it on a continual bases. There have been hard times when without CCP's improvements EVE would have died.
So yes stagnation is death, open you eyes.

To introduce a formal dueling system with out cheating options would grow the game.
For every old PVPer that succumb to the temptation, there would be a more new PVPers that, disillusioned with the fairness, would be attracted to the cheating side of EVE.

People will be people and most want to have an unfair advantage.
Only a few like to earn what they get.
Most feel that if you can get away with it, then it is ok.

You don't seem to realize the safe arenas would bring more players into the game and that a good portion of them will not stay there. The temptation to be able to cheat outside the arena would be to great for a lot of new players.

Everybody wants something for nothing. Use the safe arenas to attract new players and older ones into PVPing and simply rely on human nature to handle the rest.

Sure there will be a few who will never fight outside of the arena system. They will be a good thing. They will get very good and make a name for themselves (we should have a gladiator standing board). They will cause all their opponents to feel that they can not hope to compete without an edge.

Do you ever fight without an edge or without fearing that your opponent has an edge?
It is in human nature to be that way.

The idea of safe dueling (arena) would benefit everyone

Agreed - there is not much for the rest of Eve to lose - it just provides a mechanism for fun - which would draw new players in most likely. And players that would move on to aspects of the game like FW and null. The same people that bash the Arena Idea