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CCP Any changes to Mining for Winter 2012? First post First post
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Reislier

Likes received: 108

#161 - 2011-10-27 17:30:13 UTC | Edited by: Reislier

Boost the size and ore yield substantially.. monster roids.

Spread them out all over the system at random.. don't spawn a belt.. launch it.

Give them high velocity.. bounce them off each other like a good break on a pool table and keep them moving.

Scan them out, chase them down, mine them on the run..

Introduce "mining at speed" skills.

Make the really nice ones faster.. afterburner time.. come on old girl move it lets go go go..

Have them randomly explode but make them lucrative enough to warrant going for them.

Introduce "advanced asteroid exploding fragment shielding when mining at speed" skills.

Mix in rats and see if that don't keep you busy.

I dunno.. last time I mined.. I went to sleep.. I mean just sitting there listening to the boinky boink of strips.. the occasional pew pew bouncing off my well tanked Hulk.. yawn city.. Now give me a speed Hulk with a turbo and a boulder traveling at light speed and I might break out the Hulk for that.

Be nice. If nice not work, be civil. If civil not work, beat with iron pipe till bloody and still.

Avila Cracko

Likes received: 379

#162 - 2011-10-27 18:14:06 UTC

Severian Carnifex wrote:

Avila Cracko wrote:

to update list of that guy before:

- make belts so that you must scan them... i dont think botts can do scanning very well... (maybe add some more statics on scans too so that you must have brain to see its only static)
- static belts have only very small roids for new players... (strips dont have use if it)
- when you left scanned belt its gone... you must scan again...
- make roid stealing criminal act so you can shoot that person - botts dont see what roid you mine...
- make fleeting with other players and making real ops more rewarding then solo mining (orca boost better) - botts dont fleet
- Boost rats - botts have more problems with defending themself then real people, and it would be more involving.

Quote:

Few more quotes deleted because max of 5 quote floors

Someone stole my ideas

nice to see ppl like them and work on them. Smile

i like them a lot and would like to see them in game.

I would like to see CCP response on this ideas and on this whole subject, so if any CCP Dev have some time to spare for miners, we would appreciate it.

hehe... sorry...

or on other thought... i am not...

and... CCP... can we hear you???

truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

Nick Bison

Bison Industrial Inc

Cat Scratch Fevers

Likes received: 333

#163 - 2011-10-27 18:25:03 UTC | Edited by: Nick Bison

Imryn Xaran wrote:

Reading through this thread it has struck me that there are many different suggestions for how to make mining more interactive, and even (god forbid) interesting.

I foresee two problems with this:

1. Miners don't actually want to interact with the game, they want to switch on their strip miners and then watch TV or read a book.

Actually, a vast number of miners get together in groups and chat away in text or voice while they mine. I'm not saying there are not the semi-AFK types but, can't really paint them all with the same brush

Imryn Xaran wrote:

2. Mining ships are already easy targets for gankers, and if the player has to actually concentrate on the actual mining process they will be even easier targets.

I suggest that we need a bigger change if we want to eliminate bots and "fix" mining. I suggest that we get a new type of POS, a "Mining Platform". This structure would be broadly similar to a normal POS but can only be anchored in proximity to an asteroid belt. It can be fitted with a variety of different modules for mining, also for refining etc, and most importantly with shields and guns. Effectively, an all in one industrial platform for harvesting fixed belts. The player would just have to ensure it was regularly refueled and the finished products were regularly removed to keep it operational. It would be expensive to buy and fit, time consuming to keep it supplied, and there would only be one allowed per fixed belt, so competition would be fierce. War decs would be made to eliminate a competitors platform - mercs would be hired etc.

This would eliminate mining bots completely; it would allow the market to remain supplied with base minerals from a player driven source; and it would provide a reason for organised conflict throughout the EVE universe.

The guys who actually LIKE staring at rocks will be unhappy with this idea, but they will still be able to do their thing - just not in the static belts.

Not with you on this one however, a major buff for Exhumer's shield HPs does seem in order, especially with the ease that they pop now and will when the new Tier 3 BCs arrive.

Nothing clever at this time.

bornaa

GRiD.

Likes received: 239

#164 - 2011-10-27 20:12:47 UTC

Nick Bison wrote:

Imryn Xaran wrote:

Not with you on this one however, a major buff for Exhumer's shield HPs does seem in order, especially with the ease that they pop now and will when the new Tier 3 BCs arrive.

buff exumers or/and remove insurance payment for ships killed by concord.

[Yes, I'm an Amateur](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRa-69uBmIw&feature=relmfu)

Snabbik Shigen

Hedion University

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 18

#165 - 2011-10-27 20:59:58 UTC

Only thing on my wish list for the winter expansion is more base HP, higher resists and more PG/CPU on the industrial ships.

Retriever - Give them a 3% per Mining Barge skill level increase in resists. Increase the base resists to 15/25/40/50. Give them about 25 more CPU and 100 more PG. Raise the base shield hit points to 800.

Covetor - Should get 5% resists per level of Mining Barge and be flyable at Mining Barge IV. Base resists should also be 15/25/40/50 with 40 more CPU and 200 more PG. Base shield hit points should be boosted to 1200.

Hulk - Currently gets a 7.5% shield resist bonus per level in Mining Barge, should also get a 5% resist bonus per level of Exhumer skill. Needs about 50 more CPU and 400 more PG. Base shield hit points should be boosted to 2500.

Mackinaw - Currently gets a 7.5% shield resist bonus per level in Mining Barge, should also get a 5% resist bonus per level of Exhumer skill. Needs about 50 more CPU and 400 more PG. Base shield hit points should be boosted to 2000.

morons. 2,458
Large Collidable Object morons. Likes received: 2,458	#166 - 2011-10-27 21:11:58 UTC Snabbik Shigen wrote: ... Making bots harder to gank? `You know... [morons.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gjOx65yD5A)`

Severian Carnifex

Likes received: 227

#167 - 2011-10-27 22:16:54 UTC

Avila Cracko wrote:

Severian Carnifex wrote:

Avila Cracko wrote:

Quote:

Few more quotes deleted because max of 5 quote floors

Someone stole my ideas

nice to see ppl like them and work on them. Smile

hehe... sorry...

or on other thought... i am not...

and... CCP... can we hear you???

ok... ill write and you do promotion.

Neural Blankes

Pleides Heavy Industries

Likes received: 0

#168 - 2011-10-27 23:17:40 UTC

One aspect of mining that is thrown around a lot is mining in small groups.
Often times the responses are "it doesn't have enough reward to warrant paying someone to sit in boredom protecting a miner."
Ignoring the alpha strike issue (which pretty much renders any hired mercs useless unless they want to get concorded), maybe it isn't mining that needs to be made more interesting.
Maybe it should be made more interesting to provide defense support for miners.

Someone mentioned having to deal with asteroid fragments that could potentially damage the mining ship. How about making that something that the support ships take care of? Code it so that all ships within range can take damage (any ship). Keep the defensive support active in the mining operation.
Lots of potential issues depending on how it might be implemented, but some form of keeping the support ships would make it a little more attractive.

Side benefits: bots have to get more sophisticated to keep up.
You could also warp in with a couple retrievers and some support ships, then only shoot fragments that are a danger to your group, thus doubling the amount of debris that is hitting another ship (note: this would NOT cause Concord to show up, and could provide a very creative way to gank)

This would also do some limitation to the ability for cloaked people to move around and get close while cloaked.

This does not solve the problem of a suicider needing to shoot first, but maybe that is just up to the miner needing to lose some productivity over defense. In the long run, there's always a ship that can alpha better than your defense, but it would be nice if barges/exhumers could withstand a bit more than a couple weeks worth of skill training can throw at you.

Elson Tamar

Aliastra

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 125

#169 - 2011-10-27 23:24:51 UTC

I think that there should be somthing that involves interaction to stop boting, however one of the things about mining is it shpould be dull. PVP is dangerous - risk. Missions are dangerous if your having fun (ie making it a challange for yourself, not afking) - risk. The bordem of mining - risk of just giving up and screaming! maybe introduce high end incursion style mining, huge rewards with a need for defence and teams of miners working together. Hell the goons have introduced it and with a little refinement i.e drop the ice cycle time, but have goon like rats in ice fields so you have to hit and run ice fields or use a team. Give the rats concord protection like suicide gankers through the power of plot and sleeper AI and low interesting ice mining with shed loads of risk.

Incursion mining its the way forwards!!

Ministry of War Amarr Empire 1,580
Crucis Cassiopeiae Ministry of War Amarr Empire Likes received: 1,580	#170 - 2011-10-28 06:16:44 UTC mining needs some changes... you cant change all around it and let mining stuck in the past... here are some good ideas (like on all over this and old forum) and please CCP do something... Vote Issler Dainze for CSM7! http://community.eveonline.com/council/voting/Vote.asp?c=470

Alain Kinsella

Likes received: 127

#171 - 2011-10-28 08:21:15 UTC | Edited by: Alain Kinsella

Extending on my 'replace ALL ice with PI products' idea...

Convert ALL mining (including moons) to PI mechanics (the POS + moon miner would then act like the POCO will for planet work).

That would allow semi-afk for minerals (by being almost fully passive), and get moon mats in the hands of individuals instead of a few who can gain the trust of POS maintenance (moon miner would filter some materials as 'tax' for interacting with the moon).

[Edit - I admit this falls apart somewhat for mineral output, but for moons it would help with the insane reaction setups and simplify the POS.]

"The Meta Game does not stop at the game. Ever."

Currently Retired / Semi-Casual (pending changes to RL concerns).

Scrapyard Bob

EVE University

Ivy League

Likes received: 1,239

#172 - 2011-10-28 12:47:48 UTC

Keep in mind that there is a very large sub-section of EVE who enjoy mining in groups. They look forward to coming home, shooting up some rocks and socializing with their corp/fleet for a few hours. It's a relaxing way to spend a few hours, without having to focus overmuch on the game mechanics. It gives them time to interact with other players in voice chat or text chat.

Removal of this play style would be bad for EVE. Those people would have to either:

- log in and do something much more energetic, with much less socializing
- sit in their CQ and feel like they're not accomplishing anything
- update their planets once a day, then log back off (increasing alienation, which results in unsubs)

Some like to watch the world burn, others are interested in gathering the raw materials to rebuild it. Both are valid play styles in the sandbox.

Astor Daeoli

Science and Trade Institute

Caldari State

Likes received: 21

#173 - 2011-10-28 13:39:44 UTC

Severian Carnifex wrote:

- make belts so that you must scan them... i don't think botts can do scanning very well.
- static belts have only very small roids for new players... (strips dont have use if it)

- when you left scanned belt its gone... you must scan again...

I like the sound of that. It would also slow down 0.0 rat bots...i think? Big smile

Severian Carnifex wrote:

- make roid stealing criminal act so you can shoot that person - botts dont see what roid you mine...
- make fleeting with other players and making real ops more rewarding then solo mining (orca boost better) - botts dont fleet

I like the sound of that too. You should make a post / proposal with these ideas on assembly hall.

Vincent Gaines

Deep Core Mining Inc.

Caldari State

Likes received: 595

#174 - 2011-10-28 13:40:56 UTC

David Grogan wrote:

[quote=Vincent Gaines]

a single reinforcement timer would be necessary to allow owners a chance to defend their mining colonies

but that said all mining colony structures eggs (500,000m3) require a freighter to deploy (opportunity for pirates to gank more)

High sec megaroids

limited to 0.7 -> 0.5 sec max total yield over a 30 day period 5,000,000m3 per colony max number spawned per system 5

50% veldspar 25% scordite 10% plagioclase 7.5% omber, 7.5% pyroxeres

Corp Faction standing required 5.0 for 0.5 sec sytems 6.0 for 0.6 sec systems 7.0 for 0.7 sec systems

requires pos fuels & a group of miners (item exists - currently a mission item but they could become items to buy n sell on market) to maintain, requires strontium for reinforcement timer

high sec mining colony structure stats
10,000,000 Shield HP (all resist types @ 50%)
2,500,000 Armor HP (all resist types @ 40%)
2,000,000 Structure HP (all resist types @ 30%)

Low sec megaroids

limited to 0.4 -> 0.1 sec max total yield over a 30 day period 25,000,000m3 per colony max number spawned per system 10

28% veldspar 20% scordite 10% plagioclase, omber, & pyroxeres, 4% Jaspet, Gneiss, Spodmanium, Hemorphite & Hedbergite 1% Dark Ocher & Crokite

requires pos fuels & a group of miners (item exists - currently a mission item but they could become items to buy n sell on market) to maintain, requires strontium for reinforcement timer

low sec mining colony structure stats
40,000,000 Shield HP (all resist types @ 50%)
10,000,000 Armor HP (all resist types @ 40%)
10,000,000 Structure HP (all resist types @ 30%)

can have upto of 5 medium or 10 small pos guns anchored in range (no ewar mods though)

Null sec megaroids (NPC null sec)

limited to 0.0 sec or lower, max total yield over a 30 day period 50,000,000m3 per colony max number spawned per system 10

24% veldspar 15% scordite 10% plagioclase, omber, & pyroxeres, 5% Jaspet, Gneiss, Hemorphite & Hedbergite 2% Spodmanium, Dark Ocher, Crokite, Bistot, & Arkonor, 1% Mercoxit

requires pos fuels & a group of miners (item exists - currently a mission item but they could become items to buy n sell on market) to maintain, requires strontium for reinforcement timer

npc null sec mining colony structure stats
75,000,000 Shield HP (all resist types @ 50%)
25,000,000 Armor HP (all resist types @ 40%)
20,000,000 Structure HP (all resist types @ 40%)
A Corp Faction standing of 6.0 to the NPC faction that owns the region will give a 25% reduction in fuel costs)
can have upto of 5 medium or 10 small pos guns anchored in range (no ewar mods though)

Null sec megaroids (SOV Nullsec)

limited to 0.0 sec or lower, max total yield over a 30 day period 75,000,000m3 per colony max number spawned per system 5 per level of i-hub industry upgrade.

24% veldspar 15% scordite 10% plagioclase, omber, & pyroxeres, 5% Jaspet, Gneiss, Hemorphite & Hedbergite 2% Spodmanium, Dark Ocher, Crokite, Bistot, & Arkonor, 1% Mercoxit

requires pos fuels & a group of miners (item exists - currently a mission item but they could become items to buy n sell on market) to maintain, requires strontium for reinforcement timer

sov null sec mining colony structure stats
75,000,000 Shield HP (all resist types @ 50%)
25,000,000 Armor HP (all resist types @ 40%)
20,000,000 Structure HP (all resist types @ 40%)
bonus to sov holders = requires 50% less fuels to maintain
can have a upto 5 medium or 10 small pos guns anchored in range (no ewar mods though)

After the 30 days expire

if the mining colony survives 30 days the megaroid becomes barren and the colony structure & guns auto-unanchor and is vunerable to be 1. stolen (needs a freighter to scoop and move) or 2. be destroyed without having a reinforcement cycle.

mining colony eggs are made from PI & ore minerals much like the new customs offices will be. a mining colony should cost around the 200mil mark per egg

Ok, first, you understand that the sov colonies you proposed have 102 MILLION EHP, and with 50% omni... really? REALLY? For a little mining colony?

Even your hisec EHP totals would make it a complete pain in the ass for a subcap fleet.

On top of that your yields * number in system would quickly flood the market again and prices would drop to worthless levels. You would never receive a return. 5 per hisec system with 5m m3?

And your nullsec output is even more damaging.. mind you this is all afk with little to no interaction on the part of the owner... It's too much easy ISK and would be abused.

Not a diplo.

The above post was edited for spelling.

Luxi Daphiti

Viziam

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 107

#175 - 2011-10-28 14:29:03 UTC

I'll read through the whole thread when I have time, but I thought I'd give my two cents briefly as the topic seems to have ended in a disucssion of how to get rid of mining bots.

I've always thought real players have something quite obvious that bots don't: eyes. Any improvements intended to get rid of bots would require the use of our eyes in a way that bots couldn't. At the moment, for instance, I can scroll over any asteroid or set my overview setting in such a way that it will tell me exactly what is in the asteroid. 90% of the time I don't even look at the roid i'm mining.

So perhaps change it so that on the overview and HUD all asteroids are merely labelled as 'Asteroids' with the only way to differentiate between them being looking at them - maybe colour or some aura could be used to differentiate between different types? Either way, has to be something that only humans can pick up on easily.


bornaa GRiD. Likes received: 239	#176 - 2011-10-28 16:26:43 UTC bump `[Yes, I'm an Amateur](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRa-69uBmIw&feature=relmfu)`

Scrapyard Bob

EVE University

Ivy League

Likes received: 1,239

#177 - 2011-10-28 16:43:02 UTC

Luxi Daphiti wrote:

Bot programs don't look at the screen, they poke around in the program's main memory and/or look at the data packets flowing between the server and the client.

In order for your client to color the asteroids correctly, it needs to know what rock is what type in order to apply the right texture. So the server tells them. At which point, the client now knows which rock is which (and so will the bot program) - all you've done is make life more difficult for the real person-at-the-wheel miners without changing the difficulty of the bots.

If you hand information to the client - the cheaters can get at it (go look at how "wall hack" or "radar" cheats work in FPS games).

Sirius Cassiopeiae

Perkone

Caldari State

Likes received: 105

#178 - 2011-10-28 17:35:13 UTC | Edited by: Sirius Cassiopeiae

Luxi Daphiti wrote:

Something like that i wrote before:

Sirius Cassiopeiae wrote:

p.s.

one thought fell on my mind reading post few posts up...
why are there names of ores in overview???
why names of ores we can see at all???
make it so that we must visual distinguish which ore is which in space and mine them like this...
miners know what veldspar looks like in space, equip strip miner with proper mining crystal it...
botts cant see in 3D graphic (in space) which roid is which ore... and they could use only T1 miners that dont use crystals because that... less ore for botts... and we could easier distinguish botts...

and if you want afk mine
CCP can help ppl to afk (more or less) mine by one simple thing... make that mining ship can lock more roids... that way ppl can visualy see what ores they want to mine, lock it and then afk mine for a little till you dont kill that roids...

Zachis

Caldari Provisions

Caldari State

Likes received: 24

#179 - 2011-10-28 18:19:55 UTC | Edited by: Zachis

Why not make mining more like the PI system?

Some thoughts off the top of my head:

1) Remove mining lasers. Label all rocks as just asteroids, no mineral names.

2) Add skills for asteroid scanning, similar to PI scanning. Add mining outpost as an item, that can only be deployed by mining vessels.

3) Replace mining laser turrets with mining outpost interfaces. 1 interface controls 1 outpost. Allow mining cycle time to be adjustable. Yields dependent on skills, as well as ores that can be scanned. Could also add in processing outposts, to refine on the rock. Also, smelting outposts, to combine simple minerals into complex minerals. There's a ton you could do with this.

4) Ores and minerals are collected by interaction through interfaces. Might need to increase cargo bay or allow mineral compression. This can be worked out.

I think removing the tedium of sitting in space watching your lasers cycle and adding in a more interactive style of play would be more fun. There's a lot that could be done with the idea of smelting as well, and with mineral depletion or shifting resource nodes, it would be harder for bots to be as efficient as dedicated miners. Making it more interactive or adding more layers would make it more interesting.

Forum ate my original post, but that's the gist of it.


Vincent Gaines Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State Likes received: 595	#180 - 2011-10-28 18:46:12 UTC 1 Zachis wrote: Why not make mining more like the PI system? You gave yourself the answer. It stops being what should be a group operation and turns it into a 2-D single player event. Not a diplo. The above post was edited for spelling.

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EVE General Discussion

Bison Industrial Inc

Cat Scratch Fevers

GRiD.

Hedion University

Amarr Empire

morons.

Pleides Heavy Industries

Aliastra

Gallente Federation

Ministry of War

Amarr Empire

EVE University

Ivy League

Science and Trade Institute

Caldari State

Deep Core Mining Inc.

Caldari State

Viziam

Amarr Empire

Perkone

Caldari State

Caldari Provisions

Caldari State