EVE General Discussion

The only real reason that industry is not worth doing in Sov, is because the market that was established by players is too far away, which causes logistical costs and risks.

Have any of the large alliances/coalitions attempted to establish Sov market hubs in their space? As in serious coordinated effort, not just places to buy your PVP Doctrine ships? Wouldn't logistics become *less* of an issue? In fact, the increase in blue traffic to the market hub may actually make logistics safer as well, wouldn't it? I see more space rocks and open moons in null than I see in hisec. Seems industry would do well down here if *demand* existed.

Or are we forever locked into perpetual jump freighter hauls to and from Jita 4-4? To be self sufficient in this game, you need to able to get your **** to where the demand is. It is natural to want to produce said **** (ratting, anoms, sigs, mining, manufacturing, etc) as close to the demand as possible.

Sounds like a self-inflicted wound to me.

Provide the market hub where **** is needed (in sov), and the demand will come (my prediction). This could be done by each alliance/coalition. Build one market hub in the center of each of their greedy little donuts or maybe have CCP establish another hisec pocket deep in null to act as a market hub.

They do exist, but they're often far away, and its often much easier to just go back to Jita. It's not that null seccers cant do what your suggesting, its just not worthwhile due to the costs involved. It is much easier to give a shopping list to someone doing a high sec run.

I live in NULL as well btw, I just haven't been down there for the many years the game has been running (I played many years in hi and low only).

So, in reading these two responses I am curious if maybe the deeper issue is simply this:

If I have to go more than a few jumps, I am going to use my JF or Carrier to move my stuff. So, if I need to use my 7 billion isk JF, I might as well jump it to Jita 4-4 since the cost to do so is basically the same (maybe a tad more fuel, which is cheap). The only other issue would be the transfer from Low-Hi which isn't too difficult.

If these Sov hubs are so busy, why aren't people using them instead of Jita? Purely location and ease of transport making the distance irrelevant?

…except that the only thing worse than manufacturing at an outpost is manufacturing at a POS — taking all the woes of null production and suffering them twice over does not make the woes go away. Quite the opposite.

It is a long list but to start, the UI, the maintenance of the POS, and the logistics involved.

Would a requirement to use the space make people be there or would it amke them quit? By requirement I mean you literally HAVE TO do stuff in there or your SOV drop/is lost. Shooting red crosses, mining, industry, PI, anything really but completely REQUIRED for it to stay under your SOV. Would alliance/coalition just say **** this **** it's too much of a grind to keep up or would they do it? Would null sec people find it "too carebear" to do stuff like that insetad of PvP? It's important because we can't really force PvP anyway.

Those requirment would, if implemented well make sure there are always ship in space AND of course provide an income generated by activity insetad of "passive" moons. Taxes would then be set to fund the corps/alliance.

While I wholeheartedly agree with the rest of the post about buffing sov stations, this sentence begs 3 questions:

1) If it's not commesurate reward why are there anybody fighting for sov and people don't just stay in NPC null sec or even go back to hi sec?

2) Why most other alliances past and present including the ones I played in, never, ever posted a single thread like this, yet you see CFC (and to a much lesser degree) HBC continuously post about these nerf this - buff that threads?

3) Do you think we were imbeciles to stage in low sec, prepare and train for long months and then go to null sec and fight our way through other guys sovereignty and conquer their territory?

Because apparently we were doing it for the honor and the fame, and the CCP chronichles and the blogs around the world chanting how great and epic the EvE battles.

These days if you want to read about an EvE epic battle you have to go back to the "Ooops I gated my Titan in instead of bridging people" chronicle, that is something that was not even meant to happen.

Yet, these days, it looks like all those guys FORCED to build their empire really need the trillions puring out of every rock or else...

I think you'd see more market hubs in nullsec if the logistics costs were properly rewarded or compensated. The risk of being attacked is always there it's just not properly rewarded right now. If both of those are rewarded you will see new trade hubs pop up in nullsec. I don't think anything players do will shift jita, that's something CCP will have to do like they did with Yulai if I remember correctly.

See my post on the previous page.

…or, for an illustration, let's say I want to produce a couple of battleships (not even mass-produce) — one of those things that are actually a bit of a faff to import from high.

I've bribed some devs to give me three perfect ME Rokh BPOs (because I haven't had the 25 years required to research them yet). I've put up a POS with a LSAA (but no refinery because fsck that — less material capacity than a JF and a 3-hour cycle time, after which I've lost a crapton of minerals? No thanks).

So I slot in my three BPOs and want to build, oh, let's say 10 Rokhs from each.
That means filling the LSAA with 14,855,823 × 3 × 10 units of minerals — 4,456,746.9 m³ worth. Oh dear.

If I were in a station, I could just cart out 4000 425mm rails and refine them and it'll all be there. Unfortunately, it's in a POS, so I can't. Instead, I have to haul them to the station, refine them there, and then transport the full-sized minerals out to the POS. At 4.5M m³, that means ten trips with the freighter… A roundtrip that on its own can quite easily take an hour because, well, it's a freighter — not exactly something you'd use to skip around the galaxy (or even the system) without being absolutely sure that it'll be a clear run. That's an hour looking at the rear end of a slug rather than blowing stuff up and earning ISK, so I've already lost maybe a hundred mil ISK from the transportation alone.

Fourty hours later, not only do I have to do that mineral haul all over again, but I now have 30 battleships parked in a POS where they're not doing anything good. I want them back in the corp hangar where people can pull them out and put them to good use. If I were in a station, they'd already be there, buuuuut… no, I'm in a POS. That means hauling 1,500,000 m³ worth of repackaged ships back to the station. That's just four runs, so maybe I've only missed out on 20–30M on that move.

That's for 30 ships — what's commonly known as a small-group roam… now imagine instead that I want to supply 600 to really make use of that POS and equip a large fleet.

This thread is going round in ever decreasing circles.